Converting the Dukes of Hell
- Thread starter BOZ
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Shroomy
Adventurer
I went back and re-read the Amduscias description from 1e and I based on that description, I really like the idea of granting him a relatively large insight bonus on top of a natural armor bonus in the mid-20s. I don't think this should be granted magically but by some type of extraordinary ability commesurate with his description as having a "long memory," employing "cunning strategies," and "He does not need, and does not wear, armor in any of his forms." Flavor wise, having some kind of preternatural insight plays into his role as the "Reconciliator of Foes" and at least two of his constituent shapes, the hawk and the wolf, which are known for their senses.
This sensory ability could also grant Amduscias an insight bonus to Spot, Search, Listen, Diplomacy, etc., etc.
This sensory ability could also grant Amduscias an insight bonus to Spot, Search, Listen, Diplomacy, etc., etc.
Shade
Monster Junkie
I'm fine with granting Amduscias a bonus similar to what Shroomy suggested, but we're still gonna have to face this with the other Dukes.
Here's Mal's ability:
Profane Beauty (Su): Malcanthet's otherworldly beauty grants her a deflection bonus to her Armor Class equal to her Charisma bonus, as long as she doesn't wear armor. Good creatures must make a DC 43 Fortitude save each time they attempt to make a melee attack or otherwise touch Malcanthet. Failure indicates that they gain two negative levels as their souls are infused with her corruption. Malcanthet heals 20 hit points each time her profane beauty bestows negative levels on a creature. The save DC is Charisma-based.
As a full-round action, Malcanthet may use her profane beauty offensively. She must successfully grapple a foe in order to do so, at which point she can inflict 2 negative levels per round she maintains the grapple. Alternately, she can inflict 2 negative levels to a willing character with a kiss or other act of passion. She cannot combine this ability with her Queen's Kiss ability.
I think this is more a case of her "portfolio" of seduction than just high Charisma, so I'd hesitate to give something similar to all devils. Plus, even the BoVD "true" versions of the archdevils don't have deflection bonuses to AC.
If you really want to give them all some other type of bonus, insight would be the best choice since that is what the BoVD versions of the archdevils possess.
Here's Mal's ability:
Profane Beauty (Su): Malcanthet's otherworldly beauty grants her a deflection bonus to her Armor Class equal to her Charisma bonus, as long as she doesn't wear armor. Good creatures must make a DC 43 Fortitude save each time they attempt to make a melee attack or otherwise touch Malcanthet. Failure indicates that they gain two negative levels as their souls are infused with her corruption. Malcanthet heals 20 hit points each time her profane beauty bestows negative levels on a creature. The save DC is Charisma-based.
As a full-round action, Malcanthet may use her profane beauty offensively. She must successfully grapple a foe in order to do so, at which point she can inflict 2 negative levels per round she maintains the grapple. Alternately, she can inflict 2 negative levels to a willing character with a kiss or other act of passion. She cannot combine this ability with her Queen's Kiss ability.
I think this is more a case of her "portfolio" of seduction than just high Charisma, so I'd hesitate to give something similar to all devils. Plus, even the BoVD "true" versions of the archdevils don't have deflection bonuses to AC.
If you really want to give them all some other type of bonus, insight would be the best choice since that is what the BoVD versions of the archdevils possess.
Shroomy
Adventurer
Shade said:
I think it would be best to play it by ear. The the dukes should all have natural armor bonuses in the +20-25 range (and higher in some cases), but there is going to be plenty of variation. I'm sure some of the available descriptions will mention higher dexterity, armor, and shields, which should account for some of the AC. Especially cunning dukes should probably get an insight bonus, especially beautiful or charismatic a deflection bonus, especially vile a profane bonus etc. I think some flavorful supernatural or extraordinary abilities would be a good way to proceed from the 1e description to the 3.5e stats.
Shade
Monster Junkie
Shroomy said:
As long as we tread cautiously...Asmodeus, the most charismatic of all devils, doesn't get a special bonus. Same goes for Glasya, a bona fide "wicked hottie".
No existing devils, unique or otherwise, get a profane bonus. We can always look to other spell-like abilities that grant bonuses as well.
Aspect of BOZ
First Post
I’m just trying to keep it simple… it doesn’t necessarily have to make sense. 
Part of the reason I want to give them all of them a uniform system of AC bonus is so that we don’t have to think about it every time, and discuss it, and come up with a separate idea for each one. While, yes, it seems to make sense that there would be room for variation (and there is), we should at least establish a “base” sort of “this is what you get unless you have a good reason not to” sort of thing. Be it a Wis-based insight bonus or Cha-based deflection bonus, or something like Unholy Aura, an SLA, or something else altogether, it would just make this whole process so much easier if we could rubber stamp it on each one.
I could easily see a Cha-based deflection bonus for devils, since charming and seductive is often the rule of the day.
I could perhaps even more easily see a Wis-based insight bonus for all.
I would be willing to say that we could alternate between the two (just to keep the Dukes from being too locked into place), either giving the higher bonus or just the one that makes the most sense. I mainly don't want to stick them with too-high, easily-overcome natural AC bonuses.
For the AC bonus, I care less about what has been established for other lords, and more about what will make our job easier.
Part of the reason I want to give them all of them a uniform system of AC bonus is so that we don’t have to think about it every time, and discuss it, and come up with a separate idea for each one. While, yes, it seems to make sense that there would be room for variation (and there is), we should at least establish a “base” sort of “this is what you get unless you have a good reason not to” sort of thing. Be it a Wis-based insight bonus or Cha-based deflection bonus, or something like Unholy Aura, an SLA, or something else altogether, it would just make this whole process so much easier if we could rubber stamp it on each one.
I could easily see a Cha-based deflection bonus for devils, since charming and seductive is often the rule of the day.
I could perhaps even more easily see a Wis-based insight bonus for all.
I would be willing to say that we could alternate between the two (just to keep the Dukes from being too locked into place), either giving the higher bonus or just the one that makes the most sense. I mainly don't want to stick them with too-high, easily-overcome natural AC bonuses.
For the AC bonus, I care less about what has been established for other lords, and more about what will make our job easier.
Aspect of BOZ
First Post
excellent.
i gave some thought to the Alternate Form power. let me know how this looks:
Alternate Form (Su): Amduscias can shift between his humanoid, unicorn, and wolf forms as a standard action. In humanoid form, he cannot use his bleeding wounds, constrict, improved grab, or rake abilities, but he can use his slams and bite attack and can use weapons.
In unicorn form, he cannot use his constrict, improved grab, or rake abilities or make slam, bite, or weapon attacks, but he can use his horn and hoof attacks and his speed is 60 feet (12 squares).
In wolf form he cannot use his bleeding wounds ability, make slam attacks or use weapons, but he can use his constrict, improved grab, and rake abilities, his speed is 50 feet (10 squares), and he gains low-light vision, scent, and a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.
(one question – should the alternate form attacks be listed on the main attack line, or under the Alternate Form description?)
Amduscias remains in one form until he chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does Amduscias revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals all forms simultaneously.
examples from the MM:
Alternate Form: quasit, imp, dragon (bronze, gold, silver), eladrins, lycanthropes, phasm
Change Shape: aranea, hound archon, barghest, doppelganger, rakshasa, slaad (green, gray, death)
i gave some thought to the Alternate Form power. let me know how this looks:
Alternate Form (Su): Amduscias can shift between his humanoid, unicorn, and wolf forms as a standard action. In humanoid form, he cannot use his bleeding wounds, constrict, improved grab, or rake abilities, but he can use his slams and bite attack and can use weapons.
In unicorn form, he cannot use his constrict, improved grab, or rake abilities or make slam, bite, or weapon attacks, but he can use his horn and hoof attacks and his speed is 60 feet (12 squares).
In wolf form he cannot use his bleeding wounds ability, make slam attacks or use weapons, but he can use his constrict, improved grab, and rake abilities, his speed is 50 feet (10 squares), and he gains low-light vision, scent, and a +4 racial bonus on Survival checks when tracking by scent.
(one question – should the alternate form attacks be listed on the main attack line, or under the Alternate Form description?)
Amduscias remains in one form until he chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does Amduscias revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals all forms simultaneously.
examples from the MM:
Alternate Form: quasit, imp, dragon (bronze, gold, silver), eladrins, lycanthropes, phasm
Change Shape: aranea, hound archon, barghest, doppelganger, rakshasa, slaad (green, gray, death)
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