D&D General Could A Npc be Racist towards Elven Thieves but he's willing to befriend Elves that aren't Thieves and he will tolerate Thieves that aren't Elves?

[MarkB]

Hmmm. Okay, I can see that. Not what came across to me in the OP, but it’s a thing people do.

Whereas the concept as stated by the OP is difficult to see as being a thing people do.

 

[Charlaquin]

None of this makes any sense, I'm sorry.

The specific combination of elven thieves, but not elf farmers or dwarf thieves just isn't even coherent.

Like it's not a believable mindset.

I don’t know, I think someone purporting not to be prejudiced toward a particular ethnic group, and generally not displaying significant concern over criminal activity except when members of that ethnic group are implicated seems (unfortunately) all too realistic. Of course it’s not a coherent worldview - racism never is.

 

[JMISBEST]

I don’t know, I think someone purporting not to be prejudiced toward a particular ethnic group, and generally not displaying significant concern over criminal activity except when members of that ethnic group are implicated seems (unfortunately) all too realistic. Of course it’s not a coherent worldview - racism never is.

If my mate does use this idea would it be more coherent if the guy has reasons that, by DAD Standards, is very good, very reasonable, perfectly reasonable and completely justified?

1 example may be that the reason he hates Elven Thieves is because when very young, meaning likely 3 or 4, he or she lost all of his family and a lot of his friends to Elven Thieves that had been Outlawed

The reason he's fine with Elves that aren't Thieves is that he was saved and then raised by Elves that aren't Thieves, and I admit it likely that they were likely Rangers

The reason that he will tolerate Thieves that are Elves is that at some point during The 15 years between him being saved by and then raised by Elves and leaving to become A Adventurer he had several friends that weren't Elves that when they grew up became Thieves, which made him realize that just because, in his opinion, all Elven Thieves deserve, in his opinion, a slow painful death doesn't mean that Thieves that aren't Elves should suffer a slow painful death

 

[Morrus]

If my mate does use this idea would it be more coherent if the guy has reasons that, by DAD Standards, is very good, very reasonable, perfectly reasonable and completely justified?

1 example may be that the reason he hates Elven Thieves is because when very young, meaning likely 3 or 4, he or she lost all of his family and a lot of his friends to Elven Thieves that had been Outlawed

The reason he's fine with Elves that aren't Thieves is that he was saved and then raised by Elves that aren't Thieves, and I admit it likely that they were likely Rangers

The reason that he will tolerate Thieves that are Elves is that at some point during The 15 years between him being saved by and then raised by Elves and leaving to become A Adventurer he had several friends that weren't Elves that when they grew up became Thieves, which made him realize that just because, in his opinion, all Elven Thieves deserve, in his opinion, a slow painful death doesn't mean that Thieves that aren't Elves should suffer a slow painful death

I'm sorry, but if you replace "elf" with any real world group (which I assume is why you're asking this), the answer is that that is racist. There's no getting round that. I assume that's the thrust of your question? Otherwise, I'm not clear what your question is. Unless you're taking the 'elves aren't real so you can't be racist towards them' stance, which is a different conversation and unfortunately one which we have a moratorium on these boards for, so let's not do that.

 

[JMISBEST]

I'm sorry, but if you replace "elf" with any real world group (which I assume is why you're asking this), the answer is that that is racist. There's no getting round that. I assume that's the thrust of your question? Otherwise, I'm not clear what your question is. Unless you're taking the 'elves aren't real so you can't be racist towards them' stance, which is a different conversation and unfortunately one which we have a moratorium on these boards for, so let's not do that.

Ooops sorry but I honesty didn't realize that I was making a racist stance about elves aren't real so you can't be racist towards them. Sorry I'm not racist and sorry about breaking the moratorium on these boards about such things

I did read the rules, or does this site call them regulations? or something similiar?, I can't remember, for using this site but must have forgot about that 1, sorry I clearly made several mistakes that were both very big and completely genuine

 

[Charlaquin]

If my mate does use this idea would it be more coherent if the guy has reasons that, by DAD Standards, is very good, very reasonable, perfectly reasonable and completely justified?

Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified. I think that’s an important thing to recognize when attempting to portray a fictional character as racist.

1 example may be that the reason he hates Elven Thieves is because when very young, meaning likely 3 or 4, he or she lost all of his family and a lot of his friends to Elven Thieves that had been Outlawed

It makes sense for the character to use that experience to try and justify his prejudice, sure. That would, of course, still be (fictional) racism.

The reason he's fine with Elves that aren't Thieves is that he was saved and then raised by Elves that aren't Thieves, and I admit it likely that they were likely Rangers

The reason that he will tolerate Thieves that are Elves is that at some point during The 15 years between him being saved by and then raised by Elves and leaving to become A Adventurer he had several friends that weren't Elves that when they grew up became Thieves, which made him realize that just because, in his opinion, all Elven Thieves deserve, in his opinion, a slow painful death doesn't mean that Thieves that aren't Elves should suffer a slow painful death

This hypothetical character sure seems to have a problem with essentializing groups of people based on his personal experiences with a few individuals who happen to belong to those groups. Which, again, certainly seems to be behind a lot of real-life interpersonal racism.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Of all the things you can be in D&D, why is this a question. Make the fiction and have fun. This does not have to perfectly map on sociological and psychological research.

This is less of a stretch than a lot of stuff in game.

The key is fun—is this something the player and group can find enjoyment in?

No weirder than a barbarian trusting a priest of pelor and despising an altruistic wizard.

 

[JMISBEST]

Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified. I think that’s an important thing to recognize when attempting to portray a fictional character as racist.

It makes sense for the character to use that experience to try and justify his prejudice, sure. That would, of course, still be (fictional) racism.

This hypothetical character sure seems to have a problem with essentializing groups of people based on his personal experiences with a few individuals who happen to belong to those groups. Which, again, certainly seems to be behind a lot of real-life interpersonal racism.

I know that in real life Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified but my thinking is that just because Racism is never good, reasonable and justified in real life doesn't mean that Racism can't be Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified in DAD

The best, in my opinion, example of Racism being good, reasonable and justified in DAD is the racism between Drow and Elves that aren't Drow that has been a massive part in every DAD campaign that I've either GM'd, played in or heard about, but that could be down to the way me and every GM I know or used to know either GM or used to GM DAD

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don’t know, I think someone purporting not to be prejudiced toward a particular ethnic group, and generally not displaying significant concern over criminal activity except when members of that ethnic group are implicated seems (unfortunately) all too realistic. Of course it’s not a coherent worldview - racism never is.

Right but that isn’t actually the mindset, it’s just what the racist person says while being racist.

Someone genuinely being non-prejudiced toward a people “unless they’re thieves”, isn’t a thing.

 

[MarkB]

I know that in real life Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified but my thinking is that just because Racism is never good, reasonable and justified in real life doesn't mean that Racism can't be Racism is never good, reasonable, or justified in DAD

The best, in my opinion, example of Racism being good, reasonable and justified in DAD is the racism between Drow and Elves that aren't Drow that has been a massive part in every DAD campaign that I've either GM'd, played in or heard about, but that could be down to the way me and every GM I know or used to know either GM or used to GM DAD

Except that this is very specifically an example that, over the past several years, has been called-out as seriously problematic to the extent that it's been largely abandoned and overwritten in official publications.

What purpose does it serve to include these fantasy-racism elements in your campaign? In particular, how does this weird elf-thief prejudice lead to any interesting character developments in the story you and your players are telling that is not also deeply problematic? And is there really any way that you can justify in-game racism against fantasy races or cultures that doesn't also serve as a rationale to justify real-world racism against actual races or cultures?