D&D 5E Could a Sorcerer with a 1 Wizard dip fulfill everything unique about a wizard?

[Asisreo]

No, that's exactly the point. They can only prepare as if they were single classed, and since a single classed wizard at 1st level cannot prepare anything other than first level spells

This is the very point I'm debating.

Its the order of operations that you're taking which is the issue. You're saying that 1st-level wizards cannot prepare anything other than 1st-level spells because the wizard is first level but no such restrictions exist. The wizard can prepare any spell regardless of level as long as they have the spell slot for it. Its just that single-classed wizards would usually only have 1st-level spells.

If a magic item granted this 1st-level wizard a second-level spell slot, the wizard would be able to prepare a second-level spell because he has the slot for it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

This is the very point I'm debating.

Its the order of operations that you're taking which is the issue. You're saying that 1st-level wizards cannot prepare anything other than 1st-level spells because the wizard is first level but no such restrictions exist. The wizard can prepare any spell regardless of level as long as they have the spell slot for it. Its just that single-classed wizards would usually only have 1st-level spells.

If a magic item granted this 1st-level wizard a second-level spell slot, the wizard would be able to prepare a second-level spell because he has the slot for it.

Play as you like.
If you are the DM and you think, that it makes thr game more balanced, go for it.

I rather think that having a sorcerer that has all a wizard does and more is not... Even if the sorcerer class could need some tiny upgrade.

 

[fearsomepirate]

This is the very point I'm debating.

Its the order of operations that you're taking which is the issue. You're saying that 1st-level wizards cannot prepare anything other than 1st-level spells because the wizard is first level but no such restrictions exist. The wizard can prepare any spell regardless of level as long as they have the spell slot for it. Its just that single-classed wizards would usually only have 1st-level spells.

If a magic item granted this 1st-level wizard a second-level spell slot, the wizard would be able to prepare a second-level spell because he has the slot for it.

You didn't get the extra spell slots from a magic item. You got them from multiclassing. "As if you were a single-classed member of that class" does not mean "as if you were a single-classed member of that class, but also gaining the benefits of multiclassing."

They explicitly include a multiclassed wizard example, so I'm not sure why you think multiclassed wizards aren't covered by the rules. The R4/W3 example in the rules on D&D Beyond has 2 3rd-level slots, and the rules explicitly say he has access to only 2nd-level wizard spells.

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You are arguing at this point, not about what the rules say, but what you wish the rules said. Perhaps it would be nice if R4/W3 got to cast Fireball, but he does not, and the rules say so.

 

[Musing Mage]

This is the very point I'm debating.

Its the order of operations that you're taking which is the issue. You're saying that 1st-level wizards cannot prepare anything other than 1st-level spells because the wizard is first level but no such restrictions exist. The wizard can prepare any spell regardless of level as long as they have the spell slot for it. Its just that single-classed wizards would usually only have 1st-level spells.

If a magic item granted this 1st-level wizard a second-level spell slot, the wizard would be able to prepare a second-level spell because he has the slot for it.

Going by the letter of the law, so to speak, you could possibly make a case for a Single classed wizard who has his spell slots somehow artificially increased being able to scribe and prepare a spell that is normally higher than his ability to cast.

This, to my mind, would be contrary to the spirit of the rules and I personally wouldn't allow it, but if in your game you see it as logical then all the power to you.

To that end, by the letter of the rules, a multiclass wizard would still be barred from preparing and scribing spells higher than they can cast as a single class, even if they have a higher level spell slot. This restriction is clearly defined.

A wizard can only prepare wizard spells they have in their spell book. (PHB pg 114)

A wizard can only scribe spells into their book if it is of a level they can prepare. (PHB pg 114)

You prepare spells for each class individually as if you were single classed. (PHB pg 164) - which suggests that in calculating what you can prepare you would compare your spell slots of a single classed character NOT a multiclassed character. A single classed 1st level wizard has 2 first level spell slots. You don't count your actual final spell slot availability based on multiclassing for determining what can be prepared. That's covered in the next section:

If you have more than one spellcasting class, and you have spell slots of a higher level than you can normally prepare, you can use those slots but only to cast your lower level spells (PHB pg 164) - this line in particular is a very clear restriction as to what the slots can be used for.

 

[Dausuul]

"...as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Does not mean:

"...as if you were a single-classed member of that class, except you can keep some of the benefits of multiclassing."

You only have spell slots above 1st-level because you are multiclassed. If you were a single-classed wizard, you would not have those spell slots. If you had a magic item that granted you 2nd-level slots, maybe it would help you out. But you don't.

In the end, of course, the person you need to convince is your DM; but if you're looking for arguments to win your DM over, you would be better off making the case for this as a house rule, rather than trying to claim that it's the Official Rule. It isn't.

 

[Asisreo]

"...as if you were a single-classed member of that class."

Does not mean:

"...as if you were a single-classed member of that class, except you can keep some of the benefits of multiclassing."

You only have spell slots above 1st-level because you are multiclassed. If you were a single-classed wizard, you would not have those spell slots. If you had a magic item that granted you 2nd-level slots, maybe it would help you out. But you don't.

In the end, of course, the person you need to convince is your DM; but if you're looking for arguments to win your DM over, you would be better off making the case for this as a house rule, rather than trying to claim that it's the Official Rule. It isn't.

I'm not really trying to convince anyone of anything.

I'm trying to get into the rules of the game as they're written. While I appreciate the sentiments about asking the DM, I'm not necessarily looking for that type of discussion.

Let me make a more...practical example.

Say a 15th level wizard found a Ring of Three Wishes and got impatient. He decided he wanted a 9th-level spell now and wished it into existence. The DM decides its fine but monkey paws it to say it can not be recovered in a day.

Lets say the wizard kept the slot but multiclassed into Cleric aiming for healing word, just in case. The wizard has his new spells he can put in his book. He has a 9th-level spell not from either multiclassing nor single class progression. Its an external 9th-level spell.

He should be able, by RAW (though probably not RAI), to learn a 9th-level spell.

Multiclassing did not interfere with his spellcasting feature's ability to prepare spells that he have slots for. Multiclassing, of itself, has no restrictions to what you can know or prepare, it just asks that you pretend you're single-classed into this specific class.

Now, lets say you got an external spell slot not from a wish spell or magic item, but from a different class feature. Lets say you've obtained a mysterious 5th level spell slot as a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 1. Technically, neither classes natively give you this spell slot but you're able to synthesize this slot. Is this not yet another case of an external spell slot being given to a wizard and the wizard being able to now prepare higher level spells than before?

 

[Musing Mage]

Let me make a more...practical example.

Say a 15th level wizard found a Ring of Three Wishes and got impatient. He decided he wanted a 9th-level spell now and wished it into existence. The DM decides its fine but monkey paws it to say it can not be recovered in a day.

Lets say the wizard kept the slot but multiclassed into Cleric aiming for healing word, just in case. The wizard has his new spells he can put in his book. He has a 9th-level spell not from either multiclassing nor single class progression. Its an external 9th-level spell.

Okay, so what you are suggesting here is a fringe example that could 100% legally apply because WISH by its nature changes the rules. It doesn't have to honour the baseline RAW because it creates a scenario that goes beyond the printed rules.

It would ultimately be up to the DM to allow it or not.

But your original idea of dipping into 1 level of wizard to bypass the limitation would 100% not work going by RAW.

 

[Dausuul]

Lets say you got an external spell slot not from a wish spell or magic item, but from a different class feature. Lets say you've obtained a mysterious 5th level spell slot as a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 1. Technically, neither classes natively give you this spell slot but you're able to synthesize this slot.

You're making up some kind of bizarre Schrodinger's spell slot that is simultaneously a class feature, yet not granted by any of your classes. This is absurd.

Pick something that is actually in the rulebook, that grants you a spell slot, and we can discuss how it interacts with the multiclass rules.

 

[Mort]

Now, lets say you got an external spell slot not from a wish spell or magic item, but from a different class feature. Lets say you've obtained a mysterious 5th level spell slot as a Sorcerer 7/Wizard 1. Technically, neither classes natively give you this spell slot but you're able to synthesize this slot. Is this not yet another case of an external spell slot being given to a wizard and the wizard being able to now prepare higher level spells than before?

Short answer: No.

slightly longer answer: No, because the rules clearly say otherwise.

Answer with support from the rules:

Relevant section: "For example, if you are the aforementioned ranger 4/wizard 3, you count as a 5th-level character when determining your spell slots: you have four 1st-level slots, three 2nd-level slots, and two 3rd-level slots. However, you don't know any 3rd-level spells, nor do you know any 2nd-level ranger spells. You can use the spell slots of those levels to cast the spells you do know — and potentially enhance their effects."

If the rules worked as you propose, this character would get 2nd level ranger spells AND 3rd level Wizard spells - they don't.

I think the confusion is that it's easy to think of Sorcerer and Wizard spells as the same - they are not. They are completely different spell lists (as different as the wizard and cleric lists). Or to put another way, if multiclass spellcasting worked the way you claim a Wiz1/Cleric16 would get access to both 9th level cleric spells AND 9th level wizard spells! 100% clearly not the case and nowhere near RAI either.

 

[fearsomepirate]

If a DM grants an extra spell slot to a multiclassed character via some sort of item or magical blessing, it's up to the DM to decide how to apply that within the context of multiclassing, since there's no RAW for that. Presumably, any DM who creates such a special item already has in mind how he's going to use it and a player who tries to rules-litigate his way into some other use will probably find the item quickly qualified to close any loopholes.

DM discretion in homebrew magical item has no bearing whatsoever on the multiclassing rules.