Craft magic item: quick question

[Dross Swordra]

Hey guys. I have a rogue with a lot of money to burn. He wants to hire a wizard to create an item to increase his Bluff score. I easily found out how much it would cost to make : (bonus) squared x 100 gold pieces. but I couldn't readily find the limit governing the max bonus allowed (for a non-epic item creation). What is the upper limit for non epic competence bonus for a wondrous item?
I'll sneak in 2 more related questions : where did you find this info and what is the limit for an epic item?

Thanks in advance
-Dross

 

[werk]

Looking at existing items in the SRD, they tend to be +5 (standard) or +10 (improved).

The mantle of great stealth is an epic item that confers a +30 bonus. I'd probably allow non-epic up to +15, then epic above that. That would allow items that are standard +5, improved +10, and greater +15.

 

[Bad Paper]

In order to head this issue off before it became a Big Problem, I stated (in our group's three linked campaigns) that a Wondrous Item can grant a maximum of +5 to any skill check, and a Ring can grant a maximum of +10 to any skill check.

For your Bluff I would make it a headband or some other head-item (head governs interaction, and there is already the Circlet of Persuasion). Increase the cost for something that doesn't fit in the head "slot."

I don't know about epic stuff. I'm tempted to just double the above limits.

 

[Delemental]

Found on d20srd.org (emphasis mine)

While not truly an artifact, the epic magic item is a creation of such power that it surpasses other magic items. Epic magic items are objects of great power and value. The following are typical characteristics of an epic magic item. In general, an item with even one of these characteristics is an epic magic item.

Grants a bonus on attacks or damage greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to armor higher than +5.
Has a special ability with a market price modifier greater than +5.
Grants an armor bonus of greater than +10 (not including magic armor’s enhancement bonus).
Grants a natural armor, deflection, or resistance bonus greater than +5.
Grants an enhancement bonus to an ability score greater than +6.
Grants an enhancement bonus on a skill check greater than +30.
Mimics a spell of an effective level higher than 9th.
Has a caster level above 20th.
Has a market price above 200,000 gp, not including material costs for armor or weapons, material component- or experience point-based costs, or additional value for intelligent items.

So it seems that anything +30 or lower is considered 'non-epic'. An item that gave you a +30 bonus to one skill would have a market value of 90,000 gp, by standard formula.

The limiting factors here (assuming your DM allows both the purchase of magic items, and the creation of 'non-book' items) would be the resources of the city you're in, and the wizard you find to create it. You'd have to be somewhere that could supply the 45,000 gp in raw materials, and you'd have to find a wizard willing to burn 3600 xp to do it.

Also, looking at most other skill-enhancing items in the DMG, the prerequisites to make then include having at least the same number of skill ranks as you are giving in magical bonus (ie, creator has to have at least 5 ranks in Climb for a Ring of Climbing, 10 ranks in Climb for a Ring of Improved Climbing, etc). If your DM goes with this trend, then you'd need a wizard with 30 ranks in Bluff to make a +30 item. This is, of course, only possible at epic levels. NOt only hard to find, but even if you do, with a Bluff that high, he'll talk you into paying a lot more than 90,000 for your item.

Of course, nobody's holding a hand crossbow to your head and forcing you to buy the +30 version. Most of the standard DMG items cap off at +10.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So it seems that anything +30 or lower is considered 'non-epic'. An item that gave you a +30 bonus to one skill would have a market value of 90,000 gp, by standard formula.

Don't forget, the ELH was written for 3E, and skill bonus items were generally more powerful in 3E.

-Hyp.

 

[Delemental]

Don't forget, the ELH was written for 3E, and skill bonus items were generally more powerful in 3E.

True that, but I did use the 3.5 formula rather than the 3E formula. And since there's been no update to the epic rules in regard to skill-boosting items, the current ELH is still the RAW, whether we like it or not.

It's really a question of what the original poster's DM will allow. Personally, I'd cap him at +10.

The system kind of breaks down at really high skill modifiers, because even with 3.5 quadrupling the price, it's still really cheap. At high to epic levels, 90,000 gp isn't hard to come by, and the abuses are rampant - bard with +30 to Diplomacy, Wizard with Epic Spellcasting and a +30 to both Spellcraft and Knowledge (arcana), etc.

 

[ARandomGod]

In order to head this issue off before it became a Big Problem, I stated (in our group's three linked campaigns) that a Wondrous Item can grant a maximum of +5 to any skill check, and a Ring can grant a maximum of +10 to any skill check.

For your Bluff I would make it a headband or some other head-item (head governs interaction, and there is already the Circlet of Persuasion). Increase the cost for something that doesn't fit in the head "slot."

I don't know about epic stuff. I'm tempted to just double the above limits.

Of course, there are existing wonderous items that grant a +10 to a skill check (Chameleon cloak). Assuming that exists in your campaign, and wasn't specifically excluded.

 

[Nim]

Also, looking at most other skill-enhancing items in the DMG, the prerequisites to make then include having at least the same number of skill ranks as you are giving in magical bonus (ie, creator has to have at least 5 ranks in Climb for a Ring of Climbing, 10 ranks in Climb for a Ring of Improved Climbing, etc). If your DM goes with this trend, then you'd need a wizard with 30 ranks in Bluff to make a +30 item.

There are plenty of examples that don't have the skill pre-requisite, however: Ring of Chameleon Power. Boots and Cloak of Elvenkind. Eyes of the Eagle. Goggles of Minute Seeing. Lens of Detection. Robe of Blending. But there are also several that do...seems to be about 50/50. DM judgement call; it'd probably depend in part on whether there was an obvious spell connected with the particular skill.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Whether a skill bonus item is too powerful really depends on the skill.

Some skills can be easily made redundant by magic (eg: Jump/fly or Hide/invisibility), others can be really powerful (Diplomacy is not modified by the power of the target, so anyone can be made friendly by a high skill).

Geoff.

 

[Krafen]

Whether a skill bonus item is too powerful really depends on the skill.

Some skills can be easily made redundant by magic (eg: Jump/fly or Hide/invisibility), others can be really powerful (Diplomacy is not modified by the power of the target, so anyone can be made friendly by a high skill).

Geoff.

An even better example would be Use Magic Device. A +20 item would give most characters automatic success with all wands and staves as well as a good chance to use many scrolls.