Craft/Time Point Proposal & Discussion

[Erekose13]

Okay I'm going to move this over to the Rules and Mechanics sticky. Note that Crafting New Items will always need a Proposal thread rather than an email, I'll include the note about needing 3 approvals for it to pass. I'll leave the Crafting/Marketplace thread to the other proposal that you've got listed as well as a note in the big post that the Crafting thread is pending.

 

[Patlin]

There are a few:

Kharas = 100-14 = 86
Del = 100
Anvuss = 100 - 11 = 89
Shoot = 100 - 2 = 98
Guardian = 100
Sirrel = 100
Aethelus = 100 - 9 = 91

I am confused by the reference to Anvus being at 100 - 11 = 89.

At the time you posted, I believe Anvuss was at 100 - 2 + 41 = 139. (He spent 41 days in the inn looking for his first adventure.) He has since crafted 4 more scrolls, bringing him to 135 craft days.

I believe I have properly tracked everything in my log. Please let me know if I need to fix something!

 

[Erekose13]

Craft point wise, you are absolutely correct, I missed in your log that you had 41 days in the inn.

Rolls wise though I think you are off, unless I am reading the rules incorrectly ~ which is a distinct possibility now that I read them while looking at your rolls. It was my understanding that if you create a scroll with multiple spells you need to emulate each spell on the scroll even if they are all the same spell. So a scroll of magic missile x6 would take 6 DC 21 checks to make.

By my calculations if those scrolls were created when you reached 2nd level you would've had a UMD of +12 (5 ranks, +1 Cha, +2 synergy, +2 tool, +2 Artisan Bonus), making it easier for you to make all the rolls without using too many of your 2nd level AP before the adventure.

One last minor point, I believe you mean Restoration, Lesser which is 1st level for a paladin, as opposed to Restoration.

 

[Erekose13]

I wrote this guide up for a player who submitted an artificer to me. Please let me know if I am messing something up. This is one of the most tricky parts of being character judge and I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right.

Tips and Tricks to Artificers ~ Creating Magic Items
1. Get your UMD up as high as you can.
a. You get a +2 from your artificer class for crafting items you have the Craft feat for.
b. You can purchase a Masterwork Tool for 50gp that will give you +2 to any one skill (UMD in this case).
c. There is an infusion that gives you a +2 to one skill check @ 1st level (+3 @ 2nd level).
d. @ 2nd level you get +2 synergy from Spellcraft for scrolls.

2. Spend it or loose it.
a. You need to spend your Craft Reserve each level of you loose it.
b. You can choose not to advance a level until after you have spent your Craft Reserve for the prior level
c. make sure to keep track of what your UMD bonus is when you are crafting.

3. Multiple spells per scroll
a. you can put upto 6 spells on one scroll. The problem is that you have to make your UMD check for each spell you emulate. If you fail one you loose the whole scroll.
b. This saves you craft days (1 scroll = 1 day), but can cost if you fail.

4. Last ditch effort.
a. If you fail any of the UMD checks to emulate spells, you can reroll one of them at the end of the day used to create that scroll.
b. Therefore if you have 1 spell on 1 scroll, you get two rolls to make it.
c. If you have 6 spells on 1 scroll, you can roll one of the UMD checks twice.

5. Action Points
a. If you fail by a little bit you can spend an action point to add +d6 to your roll.
b. Given that your 1st level action points are use them or loose them too, spend away at first level.
c. You'll need to track any use of them at second level though because that will affect how many you can use now.

 

[Rystil Arden]

In the Action Points section, you wrote Craft Points by accident once.

 

[Erekose13]

fixed thanks

 

[Patlin]

Rolls wise though I think you are off, unless I am reading the rules incorrectly ~ which is a distinct possibility now that I read them while looking at your rolls. It was my understanding that if you create a scroll with multiple spells you need to emulate each spell on the scroll even if they are all the same spell. So a scroll of magic missile x6 would take 6 DC 21 checks to make.

Hmm. OK, here's my argument, as I disagree:

I'll reread the rules once I get home, since the Artificer isn't in the SRD. It was my belief that a scroll of mount x3 had only a single prerequisite, namely the mount spell, and thus only required one roll. I don't see anything clear in the rules either way, but by analogy when creating a 1st level wand you prepare it in one day and cast the spell once, rather than 50 times. If you had to cast it 50 times a night, the de facto level to create wands and staves would be much much higher.

Also, what would the implication be if you failed one of the six rolls? That would tend to suggest that one failure would put the entire scroll at risk of being botched, since it's all one item. If an item has six prerequisites and you emulate five, the whole project is ruined. Your interpretation would cause making a scroll of (whatever spell) x3 a vastly riskier proposition for an Articer than it is otherwise. The fact that I didn't want to increase failure chance is why I avoided making, for example, a scroll of 3 different spells. If this hadn't been an issue I could have done everything as once and saved several craft days.

By my calculations if those scrolls were created when you reached 2nd level you would've had a UMD of +12 (5 ranks, +1 Cha, +2 synergy, +2 tool, +2 Artisan Bonus), making it easier for you to make all the rolls without using too many of your 2nd level AP before the adventure.

I believe you are mistaken about the Artisan bonus. I don't have ECS in front of me, but my recollection is very specifically that artisan bonus is for activating an item you have the feat to make. I don't believe it ever helps in your effort to actually make the item, which is why (my calculations being otherwise the same as yours) I used a +10 in my UMD rolls.

One last minor point, I believe you mean Restoration, Lesser which is 1st level for a paladin, as opposed to Restoration.

Yep, "Lesser" was what I intended to write! Fixed.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Patlin is correct--only scrolls with more than one spell require multiple emulations (and fail if even one emulation fails!), and Artisan Bonus only applies to activation, not emulation, as called out in the text.

 

[Erekose13]

Hmm, that all makes a whole lotta sense. I'll need to review my own character's crafting then and see how it looks. As I said in my original thoughts, rereading it with that light (1 spell prerec = 1 roll no matter how many times that spell is on the scroll) really does make sense. Do you mind going through my own craft post and fixing it up? I want to make sure that I've got this down pat before messing other people up. I've added notes in bold, let me know if thats more like it.

[sblock=crafting]
[Level 1 Crafting]
@1st level 4ranks + 4mod +3feat +2tool +2class +2infusion = +17 UMD

Notes: class not valid, total UMD @ L1 = +15

Scroll 1
- comprehend languages, disguise self, grease, command, detect evil
5 rolls DC 21 umd +17
Scroll 1, DC 21 per roll
(1d20+17=22,
1d20+17=36,
1d20+17=20,
1d20+17=27,
1d20+17=21)

Scroll 1, 1 reroll. DC 21
(1d20+17=23)

Notes: correct # of rolls made, but with -2 to the roll, I'd need to use 2 AP to make it (1 auto success, 1 needed 2 or higher).

scroll 2
- protection from evil, entangle, jump, speak with animals, bless weapon
5 rolls Dc 21 umd +17
Scroll 2, DC 21 per roll
(1d20+17=34,
1d20+17=28,
1d20+17=22,
1d20+17=37,
1d20+17=24)

Notes: correct # of rolls made, but with -2 to the roll, I'd need to use 1 AP to make it (auto pass with a roll of 1).


scroll 3
- lesser restoration, charm person, enlarge person, expeditious retreat
4 rolls DC 21 umd +17
Scroll 3, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+17=37,
1d20+17=30,
1d20+17=32,
1d20+17=18)

Scroll 3, 1 reroll. DC 21
(1d20+17=23)

Notes: correct # of rolls made, but with -2 to the roll, no AP required, all made it.


scroll 4
- reduce person, rouse, resist energy, mount, shield, sleep
6 rolls DC 21 umd +17
Scroll 4, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+17=31,
1d20+17=37,
1d20+17=29,
1d20+17=22,
1d20+17=35,
1d20+17=19)

Scroll 4, 1 reroll. DC 21
(1d20+17=29)

Notes: correct # of rolls made, but with -2 to the roll, I'd need to use 1 AP to make it (auto pass with a 1).

Level 1 Crafting Notes: would've needed 4 AP to make the rolls.

[Level 2 Crafting]
@2nd level 5ranks + 4mod +3feat +2tool +2class +2 synergy +3infusion = +21 UMD for scrolls, +19 for potions.

Notes: +2 from class incorrect, +19 for Scrolls, +17 for potions

scroll 5
- cure light wounds x6
6 rolls DC 21 umd +21
Scroll 5, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+21=31,
1d20+21=26,
1d20+21=24,
1d20+21=33,
1d20+21=35,
1d20+21=29)

Notes: only one roll needed. 1st succeeded by a long shot.

scroll 6
6 rolls DC 21 umd +21
- cure light wounds x4, mage armor x2
Scroll 6, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+21=24,
1d20+21=22,
1d20+21=29,
1d20+21=23,
1d20+21=27,
1d20+21=36)

Notes: Only need 2 rolls, with -2 UMD I'd have failed the second, but upon rerolling made it with the third.

scroll 7
- magic missile x6
6 rolls DC 21 umd +21
Scroll 7, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+21=29,
1d20+21=26,
1d20+21=27,
1d20+21=41,
1d20+21=22,
1d20+21=26)

Notes: Only needed 1 roll, made it.

scroll 8
- mage armor x2, suggestion, alter self, heroism
2 rolls DC 21 umd +21
3 rolls DC 22 umd +21

Scroll 8, DC 21 per roll.
(1d20+21=36,
1d20+21=30)
Scroll 8, DC 22 per roll.
(1d20+21=32,
1d20+21=23,
1d20+21=33)

Notes: only 1 roll for magic missile needed, made it. With -2 UMD I'd have failed alter self and would need a reroll.

~~

potion 1
1 roll DC 21 umd +19

Potion 1, DC 21.
(1d20+19=34)

Notes: even with -2 UMD, made it.
[/sblock]

So first off I've included the +2 for my Artisan Bonus and that will have to go. Looking over my rolls, that means I would've needed Action Points for first level and a reroll for Scroll 8 at second level.

Does that cover it?

 

[Rystil Arden]

Hmm...your skill bonus trick also doesn't work--the infusion only lasts 10 min / level, and you need to emulate for eight hours.