Creating an archer PC

[Rackhir]

Hi,

Has anyone ever created an archer? What were you're experiences with such a character in D&D? Did you manage to make him as powerfull as his "ordinary" fighter with a longsword?

Archers are my favorite types of characters to run in D&D, I think I'm on about the 4th incarnation my archer char (my post name). Interestingly enough all three of the previous characters have come to a bad end at the hands of their own parties, though that's not been a problem with other characters.

They've always been extremely effective characters, the best or at least one of the best fighters in the party. Especially in 3e since you can get off a full attack, when most melee characters can not.

There are two key requirements to making an archer work in 3e are

1) A meat shield to keep the monsters off of you. Especially until you can take OoBI and thus don't take AoOs from firing your bow in melee. It also helps to avoid getting your bow sundered. Try to persuade someone to run a dwarf, gnome or hobbit fighter, so you can shoot over their head.

2) At the levels when DR starts kicking in you MUST either have access to GMW casting items or someone who will cast it for you on a daily basis. Unless of course you've gone AA, but the class is largely a waste of time if you do have regular access to GMW.

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=99&perpage=40&pagenumber=2

This SH is the one that Zad and I were in. My commentaries start about half way down the linked page and Zad who ran the other archer in the campaign was the primary scribe for the story hour from page 1. So if you are looking for a perspective on what it's like to run an archer in 3e you could do worse than check out this story hour.

By Zad

Deepwoods Sniper is just over the top, and just about everyone I know thinks it's too much and broken.

That's a bold statement considering you and WizaDru's campaigns have never actually used the class. You guys are about the only people I've met who think DWS is broken. Aside from people who just think archery is broken period.

Speaking from personal experience, my current version of Rackhir is a mixed OoBI and DWS and he's really no more powerful than the pure OoBI I was running in WizarDru's campaign. Especially considering that you guys don't even multiply bonus damage on crits and the current campaign does.

Can you munchkin a character to abuse DWS abilities, sure. But you can do that with most Prestige classes if you can crock the situation enough.

 

[officeronin]

I've ehard of this, but have never seen a design. I don't understand how it could work with a low BAB when compared to a fighter.

Cast that 4th level Divine Somethin'-or-other, and you have fighter BAB. Plus, you're never in melee, so you can use your heals more effectively.

OfficeRonin

 

[mooby]

You give up a little in BAB (if that bothers you, multi to fighter), but consider the front loadedness of it:

Elf Domain grants Point Blank Shot
Spells include True Strike & Cat's Grace at levels 1 + 2.

War Domain grants Weapon Focus: Longbow if you worship Solonor Thelandira or Shevarash, plus Magic Weapon & Spiritual Weapon at levels 1 + 2

So consider the elf fighter archer at 1st level: +1 BAB, PBS, Rapid Shot, 10 hp, versus

elf cleric archer at 1st level: +0 BAB, PBS, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (which compensates for BAB), PLUS the ability to cast True Strike and Magic Weapon (and other cleric spells), 8 hp.

The cleric starts to lose out at higher levels since he can't get Weapon Specialization, though spell usage compensates nicely. The hit point difference isn't a big deal, since an archer isn't usually on the front line. For maximum bang, multi to fighter after at least three levels of cleric, so you always have access to True Strike and Cat's Grace (and only need a 12 Wisdom)

It's an option, though I have to admit all the archer-types I've played have been either fighters, rangers, and one fighter/diviner.

Interesting. I've never heard of the Elf domain before. What book is that from?

 

[Cygnus]

There are three routes that work well for making an archer fighter, rogue and fighter/rogue...

The rogues sneak attack makes them an excelent sniper type archer.If you take a human rogue then you can have your proficiency and weapon focus at first level with weapon specialization at third and start on the bow feat chain at sixth. This is the type of archer you'll want if you do a lot of adventuring where the character can hide close to the fight and hit the enemy with arrows getting his sneak attack bonus. This is best for mostly outdoor campaigns. If you take elf then you don't need the wepon proficiency cause you get it with your race...

Just my 2 coppers.

How on earth did you get weapon specialization at 3rd level, and with a rogue no less?

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Interesting. I've never heard of the Elf domain before. What book is that from?

FRCS.

YMMV. Some people think the FRCS is pretty munchy; I'd say its on par with most of the splatbooks.

 

[Eridanis]

Interesting. I've never heard of the Elf domain before. What book is that from?

Elf domain is in the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.

Here's a link to the Cleric Archer thread on the Mix/Max boards on WotC's website. Worth a read:

http://boards.wizards.com/community/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=271;t=001906

 

[Numion]

I've ehard of this, but have never seen a design. I don't understand how it could work with a low BAB when compared to a fighter.

It works. Well.

Bab isn't a problem for four reasons:

1) Bab isn't a problem for archers. Bows & arrows +'ses stack. That alone makes up the difference, because cleric can cast GMW. (Greater magic weapon.)

2) Divine Power. At higher levels you can even use quickened divine powers.

3) Cleric with the Elf domain can cast cat's grace, and empower it multiple times.

4) Divine Favor. Nice 1st level spell, that scales well.

All this means that the cleric archers to hit bonuses will be greater than a melee fighters. Watch out for Dispels, though

I play one currently at 8th level, and he's beginning to shine. My friend plays 21st level archer cleric IMC, and it rocks.

 

[mooby]

Wow. That is a truely sick character concept.

Oh yeah, and he can heal the party and have some pretty good divination spells too!


So, let me ask the people who know more about this than I do:

Would it be worth taking 1 level of Wizard, to qualify for Arcane Archer? Are any of the Archer PrC's worth it for this character? Any of the Cleric PrC's?

 

[Numion]

Wow. That is a truely sick character concept.

Oh yeah, and he can heal the party and have some pretty good divination spells too!


So, let me ask the people who know more about this than I do:

Would it be worth taking 1 level of Wizard, to qualify for Arcane Archer? Are any of the Archer PrC's worth it for this character? Any of the Cleric PrC's?

Archer cleric works well as a single-class cleric. None of the PrCs I've seen are useful, because the class really has to have the "+1 caster level" feature. So many of the Clerics buffing spells rely on caster level that it's not worth it to lose on those. Archer cleric shouldn't even take any fighter levels IMO; just hurts the casting. Weapon Spec may seem worth the 4 caster levels, but four levels can give +3 to hit and damage. (+2 from GMWs, +1 from divine favor).

Divine Disciple from FRCS might be a good choice if you absolutely want a PrC for the cleric archer. You'll get the additional domain, but BAB will suffer.

 

[Jeremy]

Oh FUN! I haven't gotten to post this in a while.

A while back in one of the archer threads someone stated that a cleric archer couldn't beat a peerless archer on his very best day. Of course the example he was being put against was on a maximum damage critical on a dragon with in 30' that was flatfooted. But anyways, I took up that challenge.

Here it is. Cleric Archer build included. Though my personal favorite archers are psychic warrior/deepwood snipers.

A Ftr10/PA10 and a Wood Elf Clr20 are going white dragon hunting today. We don’t really have a lot of information about the Ftr10/PA10 except that if he crits within 30’ of a young adult white dragon that he is somehow sneak attacking even though it’s not flatfooted and he can’t flank it and rolls max damage on everything, he’ll kill the bugger in one shot. A very impressive feat on this, his best day, but this is also the cleric’s “best day of his life”, so let’s see how he fairs.

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So the two intrepid adventurers are climbing through the mountains when 8 white dragons begin circling high above them. The Peerless Archer unlimbers his bow and withdraws a single arrow, winking at his peer.

“Get their attention for me, wouldja? I want to show you a shot I’ve been working on.”

The cleric looks up at what the archer is pointing at and immediately shimmers as a Contingency is fired (Haste, AC 32). He nods in his accelerated state and unlimbers his bow as well.

Everyone rolls init, and as this is the best day of the cleric’s life, he rolls a natural 20 and gets an init of 38 and manages to go first.

He estimates that the dragons are about 500 yards away, one hell of a shot, but he feels lucky today and swears to kill the first dragon. With his Will Save of +26 he has no problem with the dragon’s frightful presence of DC 16 and hits AC 60 with his first arrow even at that range. A critical hit! 4d8+1d6+3d10+80 damage… And he rolls maximum on everything! 148 damage!

The young adult white dragon plummets to the earth, dead.

But the cleric has 4 more shots and is not sure if he’s got the dragon’s attention yet…

So he fires four more arrows, swearing to kill each dragon in turn, and this being the best day in his entire life lands 4 more maximum damage critical dropping four more young adult white dragons. Apparently Labelas wants to make sure Entherion is known as an elf who keeps his word.

But Entherion is hasted, so he uses his extra partial action to cast Time Stop. 30 seconds pass for him while time is frozen and he casts Shield of Faith (+5 deflection bonus—AC 37), Protection from Evil (in case they are spellcasting dragons), Gate (to summon a Solar to beckon them to attend the Peerless Archer), and Summon Monster VII twice (to summon a pair of Avoral Guardinals to complete the Solars retinue so he delivers his request in style).

Of the three remaining dragons whose turns come around in the init scale, 2 flee immediately as apparently the proxy of a Deity walks in the mountains below, and he is WROTH. Unfortunately, one of the remaining dragons is a little slower than the average Intelligence 8 young adult white dragon. It has an Intelligence of 4 and is curious.

It is approached by a solar and two avorals who request it attend a peerless archer and his peer below.

It nods with an evil glint in its eyes and seeks an easy lunch.

Unfortunately for it, this is the Peerless Archer’s best day of his life(tm). And it slays the dragon in a single shot once it closes within 30’.

Entherion smiles and comments, “That was a well placed arrow. Well done.”


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Enterion Windwhisper; Wood Elf Clr20 of Labelas Enoreth from the Moonshea Isles

Domains: Time, Elf

Str 13, Dex 30*, Con 13, Int 13, Wis 16 (22), Cha 10

*20 base, +5 inherent from Manual of Quickness of Action, and +5 from levels.

Feats: Point Blank Shot (Elf Domain), Improved Initiative (Time Domain), Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Rapid Shot, Persistent Spell, Precise Shot, Quicken Spell, Improved Critical: Composite Longbow

Constantly Active Spells (Cast upon waking, last 24-40 hours):

Persistent Divine Power (Caster Level 24 due to Bead of Karma, Strength increased to 18, BAB changed to +24/+19/+14/+9)
Extended Greater Magic Weapon (Bow and 50 or more arrows +5)
Extended Magic Vestment (Armor and Buckler +5)
Extended Double Empowered Cat’s Grace (Domain Spell, Dexterity increased to 39)
Energy Immunity: Cold (As apparently they are hunting White Dragons today)
Persistent Divine Favor (+6 Luck Bonus to hit and damage)
Persistent Bless (+1 morale bonus to hit and fear saves to all within 50’)
Contingency (Domain spell, Haste upon sighting White Dragons as apparently they are hunting White Dragons today)
Spell Turning (See Magical Equipment)

Magical Equipment:

Periapt of Wisdom +6
Necklace of Prayer Beads (Bead of Karma)
Manual of Quickness of Action +5 (Used)
Pale Green Ioun Stone (+1 Competence Bonus to attacks/saves/checks)
Bracers of Archery (Combined with Point Blank Shot affords a total +2 to attack and damage to targets within 30’)
Third Eye: Aware (+10 Competence Bonus to Spot and Search Checks) (Psionics Handbook)
Ring of Spell Storing (Ten Castings of True Strike Stored)
Ring of Spell Turning (Used once every two and a half hours)
Vest of Resistance +5 (Tome and Blood)
Winged Boots
Cloak of Displacement (Greater)
Robe of Eyes (+15 Circumstance Bonus to Spot and Search checks, Cannot be Flatfooted, Darkvision/See Invisibility/See Ethereal 120’ range)
Quiver of Ehlonna
Mithral Fullplate Armor +1 of Nimbleness, Negative Energy Protection, and Moderate Fortification (Magic of Faerun)
Mirthal Bucker +1 of Reflecting
Mighty [+4] Oathbow of Acidic Burst and Distance

Attack Bonus:

+24 Base +14 Dexterity +10 Enhancement +6 Luck +1 Morale +1 Competence -2 Rapid Shot (+2 within 30’)

+54/+54/+49/+44/+39 (+2 within 30’)

Damage Bonus:

(+4 Strength +10 Enhancement +6 Luck)x2 Oathbow +1d6 Acid +2d8 Arrow (+2 within 30’)

2d8+1d6+40 (20/x4**) (+2 within 30’)

**Upon a critical hit, an additional 3d10 acid damage is applied.

Armor Class:

+10 Base +8 Armor Bonus +5 Enhancement +5 Dexterity

AC 28

Spot Check (Since it was noted that this is mandatory for archers):

+6 Wisdom +10 Competence +15 Circumstance

Spot Check of 41 if Enterion takes 10. But since this is his best day, he rolls it and gets a twenty for a spot check of 51.
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