Critique My Encounter, Please...

[kaomera]

So, my players please stay out, etc., etc.

I got some very useful advice on a monster I posted here a few weeks back, so I figured I'd try posting up a full encounter and see if I could get some more hints & tips...

The party is 13th level, and includes an Ardent, a Fighter, a Swordmage, a Sorcerer, and a Shaman.

First the encounter layout, then the monsters:

[sblock]
I'm going to try and include a map - this will be played out on a wet-erase battlemat, so I'm not sure this will be 100% accurate, but it should show off what I'm trying to do.

The PCs are in an elementally-themed dungeon complex (an elemental nexus / anchor / powersource), specifically in the "fire wing". They have will been wandering through a huge cavern, lit by various lava flows and a few actively-erupting volcanoes (probably off in the distance, but who knows they may want to look at one up-close). They are headed towards the "elemental pole" deeper in the wing. As they reach this area they are coming to a passage out of the huge chamber they have been in.

The area narrows as they approach it (from the bottom / "south" of the map - sorry, didn't label that). They will initially face the three Ash Snakes ("as"), one of the Flame Snakes ("fs"), and the two Salamanders (Archer, "A", and Firetail "F"). The ash snakes will be spread out just in front of them (should be 3-4 squares minimum), and beyond that there is a slope upwards as the room continues to the narrowest point, 9 squares across.

On the slope are 8 areas of "volcanic vents" - these are difficult terrain and anyone moving onto or starting their turn on one of them takes 15 fire damage. On initiative counts 21, 16, and 11 I will roll a d6 and the indicated vent spouts hot ash, counting past any vents that have already erupted this round (so if I roll a "5" and then later a "6", vent "7" will actually be the one that erupts on the second roll). The eruption is a close burst 2 around the smaller vents (1-6), dealing 10 fire damage to each creature in the burst; for the larger vents (7 & 8) it's a close burst 4 dealing 15 fire damage. On the first two rounds each erupting vent also spawns an additional Flame Snake adjacent to it (for a total of 7 appearing in the encounter).

The first eruption of the third round is from either vent 7 or 8 (d6, even / odd) and at the same time the Ashen Naga spawns from one of the volcanic vent areas in either the front or the back end of the room (not one of the numbered vents). After that all the monsters in the encounter will have appeared...

After the slope the room broadens out into a roughly 11 x 11 chamber, with a passage headed "north" further into the wing.

I'm "fudging" initiative rolls by pre-rolling them, as I find that otherwise the players get bored waiting for multiple monsters to take their turns. I may adjust these slightly in play (basically have the monsters delay) if the players' initiative rolls are too wonky. The counts are as follows, from first to last:

27: Ash Snakes
21: Vents
21: Ashen Naga (after vents)
19: Salamander Firetail
16: Vents
15: Salamander Archer
11: Vents
11: Flame Snakes (after vents)

The Ash Sakes will go after the non-defenders if possible, and will try to end up adjacent to multiple PCs. They won't provoke opportunity attacks if they can avoid it (despite the bonus). The Flame Snakes will try and get ongoing damage on everyone, then switch to biting. They will stay in the vents area if the PCs come to them, otherwise they will move out. The Firetail will try and engage anyone trying to get to the Archer (most likely the Swordmage), and the Archer will try and pound on the leaders. When the Ashen Naga shows up it will try and screw up the defenders with it's push & immobilize, and will otherwise join in on singling out the Shaman and Ardent.
[/sblock]

[sblock]
Flame Snake
Level 11 Minion Artillery
Medium elemental beast (fire, reptile)
XP 150
HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion
AC 25; Fortitude 21; Reflex 24; Will 22
Speed 6
Resist 15 fire
Initiative +10 Perception +13

Standard Actions
m Bite (fire) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +14 vs. AC
Hit: 10 fire damage.

r Spit Fire (fire) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 10 (one creature); +15 vs. Reflex
Hit: Ongoing 10 fire damage (save ends).

Str 12 (+6) Dex 21 (+10) Wis 17 (+8) Con 15 (+7) Int 3 (+1) Cha 11 (+5)
Alignment unaligned Languages —
© 2010 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This formatted statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.

Ash Snake
Level 11 Minion Soldier
Medium elemental beast (fire, reptile)
XP 150
HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion
AC 27; Fortitude 24; Reflex 23; Will 23
Speed 7
Resist 15 fire, 15 poison
Initiative +10 Perception +8 Darkvision

Traits
Slither
The ash snake gains a +4 bonus to defenses against opportunity attacks

Standard Actions
m Bite (poison) • At-Will
Attack: Melee 1; +18 vs. AC
Hit: 6 damage, and ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends).

Triggered Actions
M Stoke the Coals (fire) • At-Will
Trigger: An enemy adjacent to the snake leaves a square without shifting or makes an attack that does not include the snake as a target.
Attack (Immediate Interrupt): Melee 1 (the triggering enemy); +20 vs. AC
Hit: 10 fire damage.

Skills Stealth +13
Str 23 (+11) Dex 16 (+8) Wis 7 (+3) Con 19 (+9) Int 1 (+0) Cha 17 (+8)
Alignment evil Languages —
© 2010 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This formatted statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.

Salamander Firetail: this is the creature from the MM1, I've upped the damage on the scimitar attack to "2d10 + 4 damage (crit 2d10+15), and ongoing 5 fire damage (save ends).", and it still has the double attack. I also upped the damage on the Tail Lash to "2d10 + 7 fire damage". I've left the Trail of Fire as-is, I suppose I should up it to 15 damage per target, but I'm not sure if I'll even end up using it.

Salamander Archer: again, this creature is from MM1. Longbow damage is now 2d10 + 7 fire (instead of the hybrid damage...) and it still has the double attack, Tail Lash is 2d10+6, and I upgraded the Tail Thrust to "one or two creatures" when it's bloodied.

Ashen Naga
Level 14 Artillery
Large immortal magical beast (reptile)
XP 1,000
HP 106; Bloodied 53
AC 27; Fortitude 25; Reflex 26; Will 24
Speed 6
Resist 15 fire
Initiative +11 Perception +14 Darkvision

Standard Actions
m Tail Slap • At-Will
Attack: Melee 2 (one creature); +18 vs. AC
Hit: 2d8 + 11 damage (or 3d8 + 13 fire damage if bloodied), and the target is pushed 2 squares.

R Spit Poison (poison) • At-Will
Attack: Ranged 20 (one creature); +19 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 3d8 + 9 poison damage (or 4d8 + 10 fire and poison damage if bloodied), and the target is immobilized and takes a -2 penalty to saving throws and all defenses (save ends both).

Skills Arcana +16, History +16, Insight +14
Str 17 (+10) Dex 19 (+11) Wis 15 (+9) Con 16 (+10) Int 19 (+11) Cha 13 (+8)
Alignment evil Languages Draconic, Primordial
© 2010 Wizards of the Coast LLC, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved. This formatted statistics block has been generated using the D&D Adventure Tools.
[/sblock]
Any comment or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

 

[the Jester]

This is a pretty cool setup. The only thing I see that I'd change (at least without a thorough check-all-the-math style audit) is the fire vents. A close burst 4 is a huge area around those vents; it covers a large section of the map and doesn't actually hinder the bad guys, since they pretty much ignore the damage.

I would approach this is one of three ways (or some combination of them):

1. Lower the burst size so it's a close burst 2 for all the vents and/or lower the damage; and/or
2. Rewrite the vents as a hazard; and/or
3. Redraw the map so that it's fatter, so there are more areas unaffected by that close burst 4.

 

[kaomera]

This is a pretty cool setup. The only thing I see that I'd change (at least without a thorough check-all-the-math style audit) is the fire vents. A close burst 4 is a huge area around those vents; it covers a large section of the map and doesn't actually hinder the bad guys, since they pretty much ignore the damage.

I would approach this is one of three ways (or some combination of them):

1. Lower the burst size so it's a close burst 2 for all the vents and/or lower the damage; and/or
2. Rewrite the vents as a hazard; and/or
3. Redraw the map so that it's fatter, so there are more areas unaffected by that close burst 4.

I was deliberately trying to make a "no go" zone in the middle of the room. I guess they really are more of a hazard, I'll admit to being a bit iffy on the difference. Also the PCs have a few items that would strip one or more monsters of their resistances.

Vent 7 only has a 1 in 6 chance of going off on the second or third goes each round, and vent 8 only a 1 in 6 chance on the third go; and I'll have them numbered on the map and be rolling in front of everyone. So I'm expecting the PCs to be able to avoid the damage if they choose to, although that might mean not meleeing the Flame Snakes (at least immediately).

I originally had all of the vents doing 15 damage, largely because the PCs typically have resist 5 all (or better) and a number of thps each, pretty much all the time. I could just lower them all to 10.

ETA: Or just make them some kind of push effect or something? I guess I'd been kind of hoping the vents would keep the melee guys from completely kill-stealing all of the minions from the Sorcerer...

 

[OnlineDM]

This seems like a fun encounter, though pretty complicated for the DM to run. I like that you've put so much thought into it and pre-rolled initiative for the bad guys.

I would have expected that elemental fire creatures would be completely immune to fire rather than simply having a lot of resistance to it, just for flavor purposes, but I'm guessing you have a good reason for that choice (maybe some of your players have high-damage fire attacks that you want to be useful). I'd also expect them to have some cold vulnerability, perhaps.

Will the players know that they're going into a fire wing? Will they have the ability to prepare appropriately by stocking up on fire resistance or cold weapons? Does that affect the challenge level of the battle?

I like the map - thanks for providing it!

 

[kaomera]

OnlineDM: The monsters where either re-fluffed or merely updated, so their resistances and vulnerabilities are largely as listed. The PCs where basically aware of what they where getting into (this is the first of 4 wings they will be exploring), and have rounded up a cache of potions (fruit, actually, since this is Dark Sun) that should be useful.

I've thought about it and I think I'm going to change this up a bit. I've been wracking my brain for a good skill challenge to throw in the big chamber, and I think that I'm going to move this encounter there. What I'll do is, if they pass the skill challenge I'll let them pick their ground a bit (basically let them draw part of the map), if they fail it they walk into an ambush (possible surprise round) and I'll also throw an appropriate (level 12 or so?) hazard in to the fight. Now, my group doesn't want to do implicit skill challenges, so if they manage to tangle things up and either haven't won or lost the challenge by the time it's appropriate to run the encounter, or they do something to invalidate other results, I'll run something in the middle (possible surprise, but no hazard). This avoids the cramped quarters of the map I posted, which should be good since the next encounter will be along the tunnel they leave the big room by, and it could get repetitious... Otherwise the encounter will be the same, although I won't be having the vents "erupt", since the hazard will cover that (I still need to find something good for that...)

I should note that we're not tracking XP, instead we level when the players feel it's appropriate (largely because we are supposed to be running 2 out of 3 weeks, but actually end up skipping a lot more than that). So technically at least I should be able to throw the hazard in with no problem. However, a level 12 hazard would take the encounter from 4700xp to 5400. I'm not sure if that would be too much or not.

 

[kaomera]

Well I can't seem to find a hazard that seems to fit my needs...

I might just go with a one-off attack (the Salamanders manage to release a cloud of hot ash to cover their ambush?), something like +15 attack, 2d8+11 and slide 4 squares (as the character is staggering around and choking) on a hit, half damage and slide 2 on a miss? (Close burst whatever... It should hit all of the PCs and goes off just before the fight actually starts, basically.)

 

[ren1999]

When/if I get a chance, I'll test this.

You can test it in the Combat Tracker provided it works for you as well.

http://kira3696.tripod.com/magespells.htm
http://kira3696.tripod.com/CombatTracker.rar

 

[Noctos]

This seems like a fun encounter, though pretty complicated for the DM to run. I like that you've put so much thought into it and pre-rolled initiative for the bad guys.

i did this everyday if not worse it's able keeping this straight in your mind. but it's farily simple.

I was deliberately trying to make a "no go" zone in the middle of the room. I guess they really are more of a hazard,

i tried that a lot to making a room so dangerious the pc's would leave. i also tried to place traps and i guess what are now call hazard's in the center of dungeons as a great chance to slow/ harass my players. Forcing the use of skills and attrabutes that might often go unused. but my players often decided they would use magical means or pure brute force to just avoid such things. (aka making a new door)