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Critique my Houserules

Jaelommiss

First Post
I'm designing a set of houserules for a new campaign. The purpose is to 1) create create player characters that are incredibly flexible for their level, 2) encourage caution by reducing rate of resource recovery, 3) implement long lasting consequences for falling in combat and providing characters with the means to avoid it, 4) reduce hit point bloat without limiting players to basic characters, 5) eliminate delays to main class progression from multiclassing.


The rules I am considering would considerably increase a character's mechanical complexity. The game will be run for a maximum of four players with solid system mastery and DM experience. Some of the rules have been playtested in other campaigns. Others have been inspired by published rules in other editions and games. Under these rules Hit Points are used to reflect a character's capability to avoid a potentially lethal wound. Severe physical injuries are tracked separately.


I have been working on these rules for a while with occasional assistance from other DMs. I am now looking for feedback from a broader community. DMs, let me know whether you would feel comfortable running a game with these rules. What would you change or remove or tweak? Does anything stand out as potentially problematic? Players, do you see any character combinations that these rules open up that could be significantly more powerful than a hypothetical average character would be? Would these rules prompt you to craft a character that would otherwise be impractical under the default rules? How would you feel playing in a game with these rules?



[sblock=Houserules]All player characters have two simultaneously leveling paths. Each path is created as an independent multiclassed character using the same background, and their features and resources are combined afterwards. Spell slots from one path may be used for spells and abilities from the other path, but are tracked separately. Classes taken in one path may not be taken in the other. Path one, or the primary path, is used to determine saving throw proficiencies, hit points, and proficiency bonus. Weapon, armour, and tool proficiencies are added together from both paths. The player may choose the skill proficiencies from either path at first level, but not both. Although it does not contribute to the character’s hit point total, hit dice from both paths are combined into a single pool. The primary path may not multiclass as it gains levels. When the secondary path gains an ability score improvement, it may be used to gain a feat or to improve an ability score other than the one improved by the primary path at that level. Bonus ability score improvements for fighters and rogues are exempt from this restriction.


Almost all healing requires the expenditure of at least one hit die in order to gain its benefit. The expended hit die is rolled, added to the character’s Constitution modifier, and added to the number of hit points regained. The player being healed chooses how many hit dice to expend, up to a maximum number equal to the spell’s level or one for effects other than spells. Effects that restore an exact number of hit points (Life Cleric’s Preserve Life, Paladin’s Lay on Hands, etc.) do not require or allow the expenditure of hit dice. The Fighter’s Second Wind also does not require the expenditure of hit dice. If a character has no hit dice remaining, the effect is wasted with no effect.


When you complete a long rest, one path gains the benefits of a long rest while the other gains the benefits of a short rest. You may choose which path gains which benefit. A character regains half of the expended hit dice in their hit dice pool (rounded down, minimum one) at the end of a long rest.


When damage reduces a character to zero hit points and there is damage remaining, the character’s constitution is reduced by an amount equal to the damage remaining. The character then gains a level of exhaustion (edit: see below for changes to exhaustion), falls unconscious, and starts dying. A dying creature makes a DC 10 death saving throw at the starts of its turn. On a failure the creature’s constitution decreases by one. After three successes a creature stabilizes and will reawaken at one hit point in 1d12 x 20 minutes. On a natural twenty the character regains one hit point and becomes conscious. A character dies if reduced to zero constitution. A character’s constitution modifier changes as their constitution is lost. This affects modifiers to attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws, save DCs, hit points, healing, and all other aspects of the game where their Constitution modifier is used. A character’s natural constitution score must be recorded somewhere on their character sheet and increases with ability score improvements spent on constitution. Default dying rules are removed.


For each level of exhaustion a character gains they suffer a stacking -1 penalty to attack rolls, ability checks, saving throws, and its saving throw DCs. For every two levels (rounded down) its movement speed is reduced by one quarter. A character recovers from one level of exhaustion at the end of a long rest. Default exhaustion rules are removed.


In order to recover lost points of constitution, a character must spend at least one hour per day per point of missing constitution (maximum ten hours) tending to their wounds and resting. Time spent resting in this fashion does not count towards a long or short rest. This activity may be broken up across the day. One charge of a healer’s kit must be expended each day. The character must also make a DC 15 Wisdom (Medicine) check. On a success the creature regains one point of constitution at the end of its next long rest. Another character may assist if they spend at least half the required time tending to the injured character. In this case, the Wisdom (Medicine) check is made using the highest modifier of the two characters. An assisting character may tend to multiple characters in a single day. A character’s constitution may not be restored beyond its natural score.


When a player character is reduced to zero hit points, they may use their reaction to fight on. The character loses points of constitution from remaining damage and gains a level of exhaustion as usual. Instead of falling unconscious, the character spends a number of hit dice equal to their proficiency bonus, rolling them adding their (possibly reduced) constitution modifier to each of them. The character regains that many hit points. A character who does not have enough hit dice remaining may not take this reaction.
[/sblock]



I can supply the rationale behind specific aspects of the rules if it would help. Sample characters can be provided to clarify any ambiguity. Let me know if anything was unclear and I'll try to explain to the best of my abilities.
 
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Coroc

Hero
What is it with the two paths? Is it every char starts out Kind of multiclass? Can you provide an example?

Exhaustion is a very cruel mechanic, best only used when Players really do soemthing to get exhausted. Just use the gritty healing rules another way:

Short rest = a night of sleep

Long rest = a Weekend at the inn or some other peceful site.

Care though if you got casters that rely on short rests, include 5 Minute rests to get the spell recovery for them.

Invalidating all healing Magic except your example unbalances the game a bit.

How do you handle things like spare the dying? When some cleric casts heal does the Player have to roll hd still?
 


Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Thanks for starting with your goals - that really gives a clear understanding of what you are trying to achieve and we can evaluate them in that light.

These are fairly big changes, I suggest you leave yourself open to changing them once you have more experience with how they affect your table, and let your players know you are open to concerns.

General Comments

It looks like you're doing a gestalt. I like keeping the spell advancement separate, that's been a downfall of some of the other attempts. With the additional power you have, more pwoerful/numerous foes will be required to challenge the party. This grants more XP and will increase the rate of advancement (unless you require assigning XP to specific paths). I recommend you halve XP granted for encounters.

I had a big bit about not liking exhaustion on reaching zero, but then later I see you changed exhaustion. May want to put a comment (but see below) when you first mention it.

Balance

For healing I had looked at a similar rule, but things like Mass XX allowed too much of a boost when going by spell level. I found capping it to the number of dice of healing was more useful.

I know you mentioned all of your players have solid system mastery, but some synergies work better and I find spreading spotlight is most even when all of the characters are in the same neighborhood of power, be it high or low.

While 5e is better than some other editions about cherry picking, there are still some places and you may want to watch out. In addition, some classes work just fine with short rests and no long rests.

Let me try to combine those to give an example: A primary paladin, secondary warlock hexblade/pact of the blade (for CHR using any weapon, short rest spell slots for spells or smiting, EB for ranged, etc.) who then maybe takes some fighter (action surge and second wind recharging on short rest, another fighting style).

Clarifications

If your secondary path multiclasses so that you are gaining ASI not the same levels as your primary path, how does that work out? I assume it's just whatever you took last time you had an ASI.

If a character fails a death save and their CON modifier drops, does that count as a new hit because your HPs just dipped again? (Suggestion - it shouldn't because you get into a death spiral.)
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Exhaustion is a very cruel mechanic, best only used when Players really do soemthing to get exhausted.

I was with you, wrote a big screed against Exhaustion ... then noticed that he completely changed the effects of it. Not it's just a -1 to various checks per level of exhaustion.
 

mrpopstar

Sparkly Dude
I'm going to echo [MENTION=6895991]Coroc[/MENTION] and support the assertion that exhaustion is cruel, burdensome, and deadly. It's best to reserve it for travel and exposure when emphasizing the exploration pillar.

EDIT:
I was with you, wrote a big screed against Exhaustion ... then noticed that he completely changed the effects of it. Not it's just a -1 to various checks per level of exhaustion.
D'oh!
 

Jaelommiss

First Post
Thanks to everyone who took the time to reply. My response was delayed while I discussed your feedback with the friends with whom I have been developing these rules.

If any of my responses come off as rude or forceful, please do not take them that way. Offense is not my intention. Let me know and I'll try to correct it.


Sounds like you'd be better off just running Hackmaster.

--
Pauper

While I may have the time and resources to acquire and learn an entirely new set of rules, not all of my players do. I find it far more efficient to take rules the I want from other games and add them to a framework that my players are familiar with. Even if it takes ten hours to add a rule in a balanced fashion, it's still far short of the hundreds of hours it takes to master an entirely new system.



What is it with the two paths? Is it every char starts out Kind of multiclass? Can you provide an example?

Exhaustion is a very cruel mechanic, best only used when Players really do soemthing to get exhausted. Just use the gritty healing rules another way:

Short rest = a night of sleep

Long rest = a Weekend at the inn or some other peceful site.

Care though if you got casters that rely on short rests, include 5 Minute rests to get the spell recovery for them.

Invalidating all healing Magic except your example unbalances the game a bit.

How do you handle things like spare the dying? When some cleric casts heal does the Player have to roll hd still?

The two paths works very similarly to 3.5 gestalt rules. A level one character would be level one in two different classes (Barbarian1/Bard1) with HP determined by the first class (Barbarian). A level two character would have two levels in the first class, and two levels to be distributed as desired between other classes (Barbarian2/Bard1/Fighter1) with the HP of barbarian 2.

In the campaign that these rules were designed for, safe resting would never be a certainty. Sometimes the party will get a single night to recover, sometimes it'll be three nights, and sometimes it will be a week or two. They will be immersed in a hostile environment at all times, and delaying healing without making it all or nothing until an arbitrary time of safety is reached (such as the week long long rest in the DMG's variant) will allow for at least partial recovery between conflict.

Would you mind explaining what you mean about invalidating healing magic? I might have explained it poorly, but the intent was to bolster the amount healed through the expenditure of a limited resource. Instead of healing 2d4+2, a healing potion would restore 2d4+2+a HD.

Spare the Dying simply stabilizes a character. As there is no healing at all, it should not interact with any of my rules unless I missed something. Could you please tell me which of my rules you believe would affect it? There is a good chance that I need to rewrite or clarify something.



Thanks for starting with your goals - that really gives a clear understanding of what you are trying to achieve and we can evaluate them in that light.

These are fairly big changes, I suggest you leave yourself open to changing them once you have more experience with how they affect your table, and let your players know you are open to concerns.

General Comments

It looks like you're doing a gestalt. I like keeping the spell advancement separate, that's been a downfall of some of the other attempts. With the additional power you have, more pwoerful/numerous foes will be required to challenge the party. This grants more XP and will increase the rate of advancement (unless you require assigning XP to specific paths). I recommend you halve XP granted for encounters.

I had a big bit about not liking exhaustion on reaching zero, but then later I see you changed exhaustion. May want to put a comment (but see below) when you first mention it.

Balance

For healing I had looked at a similar rule, but things like Mass XX allowed too much of a boost when going by spell level. I found capping it to the number of dice of healing was more useful.

I know you mentioned all of your players have solid system mastery, but some synergies work better and I find spreading spotlight is most even when all of the characters are in the same neighborhood of power, be it high or low.

While 5e is better than some other editions about cherry picking, there are still some places and you may want to watch out. In addition, some classes work just fine with short rests and no long rests.

Let me try to combine those to give an example: A primary paladin, secondary warlock hexblade/pact of the blade (for CHR using any weapon, short rest spell slots for spells or smiting, EB for ranged, etc.) who then maybe takes some fighter (action surge and second wind recharging on short rest, another fighting style).

Clarifications

If your secondary path multiclasses so that you are gaining ASI not the same levels as your primary path, how does that work out? I assume it's just whatever you took last time you had an ASI.

If a character fails a death save and their CON modifier drops, does that count as a new hit because your HPs just dipped again? (Suggestion - it shouldn't because you get into a death spiral.)

You're right that I'm trying to create a form of gestalt. That was one of my sources of inspiration. I would likely not be using XP for advancement or I'd dramatically alter it to suit my needs if they players insisted on it.

I found that there were two ways to look at the characters. As written (which has been how it has been presented to my group), a character has twice as many class features as they should for their level. The way that I have been looking at it is that they are a character who is limited to a maximum of half their levels in any one class, half their HP, and a slightly reduced proficiency bonus. A character could be seen as a Paladin 5 with all the fun toys of a Warlock 5, or as a Paladin5/Warlock5 with half the HP and a -1 to their proficiency bonus. It is the latter that I have been using for campaign design. The big difference is that I don't need to consider how effective a single classed character would be. Big spells like Raise Dead won't come into play until characters are acting as a multiclassed 18th level character. With their reduced HP they would be weaker than that, of course. The multiplier I have been considering is 1.5x (that is, a character with six levels in their primary path would be treated as though they are level nine for balance purposes), but that will require significant playtesting before it can be considered accurate.

I will look at capping number of HD allowed to the source's number of dice used for healing. It might interact strangely with healing potions' stack of 2d4+2, 4d4+4, 6d4+6, but that's as simple as making it xd8+2x instead.

For ASI, you'd be correct. A Fighter4/Rogue1/Barbarian3 who boosted Str at level four would not be able to again boost Str when they hit level five and became Fighter5/Rogue1/Barbarian4. Unfortunately I could not find a concise way to explain that without resorting to examples. Refering to them in the order gained per path (first for primary path, seconds for primary path, first for secondary path, etc.) would have clarified that greatly.

I'm not sure I entirely understand what you means about counting as a hit when constitution is lost from failed death saves. Reduction in maximum HP resulting from a loss of Constitution would not count as taking damage. Unless there is a very big hole that I'm missing somewhere, characters should not be losing constitution while they still have hit points, and thus would not be able to lose hit points as a result of losing constitution. If you could explain what you meant in more detail I would appreciate it. It's entirely possible that there is a reasonable case that I have overlooked.



I was with you, wrote a big screed against Exhaustion ... then noticed that he completely changed the effects of it. Not it's just a -1 to various checks per level of exhaustion.

Back in Oct. 2014 I started playing around with the idea of gaining exhaustion when dropped to zero hit points. Although I still like the idea, I found that the exhaustion table was not a good fit for that. In addition to radically changing how advantage and disadvantage come into play for a character with exhaustion, it penalized different characters at different rates.

A rogue who tries to hide a lot, a grappler, and a character based around optimizing skill usage all face immense penalties with even a single level of exhaustion while most others are hardly impeded at all.

Melee combatants and monks lose a lot from a second level of exhaustion, while ranged characters tend to not notice losing half their movement speed outside of travel rates.

Anyone who relies on attack rolls is crippled by a third level of exhaustion. By applying disadvantage a rogue becomes entirely incapable of sneak attacking under any circumstances. Disadvantage on saving throws is rough for everyone. Spellcasters focusing on hampering enemies by forcing them to make saves can still do so at maximum efficacy.

The fourth level of exhaustion is brutal for everyone. I removed this effect from the exhaustion scale and instead placed it with and scaled it off of the most common source of exhaustion under my overhaul: temporary loss of constitution.


My intent in creating a stacking penalty was to create a gradual impact that will apply to all aspects of play so that all characters are equally affected. Not immediately altering the balance of adv/dis for characters with exhaustion was a nice bonus.
 

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