Crossbows and why the rules shortchange them.

[Primitive Screwhead]

Discussion of Bows

Discussoin of Bows by Tinker

I like the system Tinker proposes, altho I dont' agree with his use of exotic weapon designations.. I prefer:
Short Bow, Cross bow = simple weapons
Long Bow, Cross bow weilded one handed = martial weapons
Siege Cross Bow = exotic weapon

I also think that critical ranges should be 19-20/3 for bows and 20/3 for cross bows.

It adds a bit of complexity, but if your group is really into this sort of thing, I think it works our pretty well.
Of course, I have not been able to use this in play yet, as my group has no interest in archery

 

[Mouseferatu]

What if 10' were added onto the range increment of each crossbow...

Not if the point is that we're trying to emulate reality here. Crossbows were notoriously inaccurate beyond short range. If anything, crossbows should have greater range penalties beyond point blank than other ranged weapons do.

I think the fact that crossbows are A) simple weapons and B) do higher damage than bows of comperable size is more than sufficient. However, I'm not opposed to making "strength crossbows" available, simply by having a stronger mechanism. In fact, you can expect to see exactly that in a future project...

 

[Old Gumphrey]

How about normal mighty rules for crossbows, but if you don't have the right str rating, it takes longer to reload instead of just applying a hit penalty (since once loaded your str doesn't matter). I'd say it takes one action longer to reload if you're not strong enough. A 10 str guy with a +3 mighty heavy crossbow would require a full round action to reload it, or a standard action with Rapid Reload. The weapon would also cost +300 gp and deal 1d10+3 damage. Seems pretty fair to me.

 

[S'mon]

The D&D 3e crossbows have very high fire rates & very low damage - clearly they must have a very low 'draw weight'; probably about 100lbs for the heavy crossbow (since it does slightly more damage than a non-mighty longbow, a typical medieval light battle bow draw weight being something around 80lb; some late-medieval longbows had draw weights 135lb+, these would be 'migthty' in D&D terms). IRL there were crossbows with draw weights of 350lb+.
Ergo IMC I have lots of heavier crossbows with much slower fire rates & much more damage, they also ignore a certain amount of armour/natural armour AC bonus depending on their power. So eg IMC a 'light arbalest' takes 2 full rounds to reload, does 2d10 damage, and ignores 5 points of armour. With 1/6 the fire rate of a rapid-firing longbow it's still inferior for most purposes, although dangerous in the right circumstances. Needless to say ballistae IMC also do much more than 3d6 dmg.

 

[LazerPointer]

I'm all for upping the damage done by x-bows, and increasing the loading time. I think the thing that would finish off the plan would be to make sure the PC's can't walk around with their crossbow always loaded. That would be a gimmicky weapon.

 

[robberbaron]

Fighters tend to use bows, non-fighters tend to use crossbows (at least in our games).

Sounds right to me.

Problems with crossbows:
can't shoot downwards (bolt falls off the end)
have to be really careful moving around with one loaded (bolt falls off the end/side, or a jolt sets it off)

Good points:
Any idiot can fire one.

 

[Swiftbrook]

But a crossbow is quite simply an improvement over a bow for ease of use. Once loaded, it's much harder to mess up. The bolt is snug in its little home awaiting ejection. But this ease of use is not properly accounted for.

This is my BIG peeve with crossbows. A typical (light) crossbow could be loaded and fired 2 or 3 times a minute, a larger crossbow (requiring a winch) about once a minute. In D&D, the worse case is one round to reload (fire the next) or 5 shots a minute for a great crossbow. A light crossbow can fire and reload in one round.

I agree a crossbow should cause more damage but should take a lot more time to reload. Characters with high STR scores can reload faster -- their crossbows can use a lever action instead of a winch for reloading.

-Swiftbrook

 

[S'mon]

IMC I assume the 3e 'light crossbow' uses a simple lever-action reload mechanism, since it's only a move-action to reload and it only does the same damage as a non-mighty longbow. Heavy crossbows use a winch and can't be fired from horseback.

 

[Tetsubo]

IMC I assume the 3e 'light crossbow' uses a simple lever-action reload mechanism, since it's only a move-action to reload and it only does the same damage as a non-mighty longbow. Heavy crossbows use a winch and can't be fired from horseback.

Actually a light crossbow could just be pulled back by hand. I own a crossbow that would fall into the "light" classification. I think it has like a 40 pound pull. I'm not all that strong and pulling the string back with my fingers is fairly easy.

 

[Darklone]

40 pound crossbows would fall under the hand-crossbow category.