Crossbows and why the rules shortchange them.

[Kisanji Arael]

I think the damage of the crossbow is too low, tho, it should be more like 2d6 for the light one and 4d6 for the heavy version. There's quite some power behind those little bolts, and there must be a reason you cannot normally pull back the string without a lever or winch.

*blinks* 4d6? That's a bit much, even if they are great weapons. I mean, I remember very recently firing a crossbow with a 150 lbs. draw (not insignificant) at a wine bottle from nearly point blank range, and it barely dented it. There wasn't even more than a scratch mark. And my poor crossbow bolt was ruined by that. A light crossbow in this day and age has about a 75 lbs. draw, I think. Even 1d10 would be a bit much.

On a separate note, how do you account for the special arrowheads in your game that they have in real life?

 

[Aaron2]

Shooting a moving target with a crossbow requires slewing a greater mass, which reduces accuracy when attempting to stop said mass on target.. but in a D20 setting, where things are abstracted do a degree...

People don't seem to have trouble aiming a 8-9 lb. rifle at moving targets.

Since I have not seen any comments on my last post, here is a link {again} to some house rules on treating Bows/Crossbows based on Effective Strength.. Tinkers' Discussion

The rules are close to my own (at least with respect to crossbows, although I only increase the die size for each +2 Str Mod). I doubt the need to distinguish between bows made for Str 10 and those made for Str 11. Finally, I'd like to see a chart for simple (not composite) crossbows which were fairly common in the early medieval days or as common hunting weapons.

Any word on a 3.5e update?


Aaron

 

[IronWolf]

All of this talk about crossbows has been quite interesting.

An interesting book about the subject is 'The Book of the Crossobow' by Ralph Payne-Gallwey. It covers the history of the crossbow (including comparitive notes to the longbow and shortbow), construction of of crossbows during medieval times and modern times (remembering though that the book was originally written in 1903 I believe) and even a section on seige engines of the medieval times.

It's probably worth a read for those interested of one viewpoint of how crossbows played a role in history.

 

[Psimancer]

Shooting a moving target with a crossbow requires slewing a greater mass, which reduces accuracy when attempting to stop said mass on target..

Spot on...

It was something that I have read several times... persoanlly, I don't feel it is something that needs to be factored into the game...

People don't seem to have trouble aiming a 8-9 lb. rifle at moving targets.

Part of that is because you tuck a rifle into your shoulder when firing, bringing you pivot point as close as possible to your body. Historical crossbows did not have a shoulder stock to do this, they were held several inches away from the body. Another part is that a good portion of the weight of a crossbow is at the front, bringing its centre of gravity forward...


.

 

[S'mon]

40 pound crossbows would fall under the hand-crossbow category.

Yes, I'm assuming a D&D light crossbow has similar pull to a longbow, otherwise it would do less damage. ca 80lbs. 40lbs would be a d4-dmg hand x-bow.

 

[S'mon]

I'm sure I've seen 'historical' pics of x-bows w shoulder stocks. One thing I've realised from this discussion is that draw weight/10 seems to give a very good approximation for a (non mighty) weapon's maximum damage in D&D! ie d4 = 40lbs, d8 = 80lbs, d10 = 100 lbs. Or divide draw weight by 20 for the average-low damage, so a mighty+4 bow that averages 8 dmg would be 160lbs draw weight. *Cool*.
Thus a real-world siege x-bow with a 360 lbs draw weight should average 18 dmg.

 

[Psimancer]

I'm sure I've seen 'historical' pics of x-bows w shoulder stocks.

Really? I'd love to see it! 100 to 1 says its Renaissance and not Medieval...



.

 

[S'mon]

Well, 15th-century, Agincourt or Wars of the Roses AFAICR - that's Renaissance in Italy but still Medieval in England.

 

[Aaron2]

Really? I'd love to see it! 100 to 1 says its Renaissance and not Medieval...

Where do you draw the line? With D&D having full plate armor, it puts the tech in the fifteenth century at the earliest. To limit crossbows to medieval types would be, well, unfair.


Aaron

 

[Psimancer]

Where do you draw the line? With D&D having full plate armor, it puts the tech in the fifteenth century at the earliest. To limit crossbows to medieval types would be, well, unfair.

Given that the statement about crossbows being inferior to a bow when shooting at a moving target was quoted in relation to medieval crossbows, yep, it’s more than fair.

I have no doubt that as technology advanced this statement became less and less true. But at that stage, the crossbow was becoming virtually obsolete and relegated to the ranks of a sporting and hunting weapon...

And as previously stated, I would never bring this into the game, partially for that reason...

It's just a fact that I have picked up along the way and thought I would share...

.