Crt

[Fenmarel]

Something thing I was wondering about is the CRT's location. For the most part the characters that come there are Forgotten Realms characters. There has been a very small influx of Greyhawk characters but the ones from FR outnumber them at the very least 2-1. I know that alot of work has been put into the CRT by Siani and other admin or players but it seems that FR is the most favored of settings and has been for a good bit now, followed closely by Planescape or what ever the official title of that setting is now for 3rd ed.

Yes I know that a few will say "well the emporium has portals to Faerun you could rp there or use a portal from there to the CRT". That is true but on the same token thinking about that from an in character view why would a character(unless pretty powerful) wish to show up to a realm where demons/devils/celestials or other powerful planars could show up with no notice what so ever and some feud mortals don't really comprehend now falls in their laps? Yeah I know that stuff happens at the CRT BUT that the setting itself isn't set up for that type of thing to happen on a daily basis where as the emporium is.

The reason I asked about a change to the CRT and not the emporium is that there are more characters that would benefit from the emporium's location than that of the CRT.

Just my two cents. I'd love to hear both the players' and admins' thoughts on this.

 

[Kyra]

What, exactly are you asking for Fen?

 

[WizO_Adele]

To answer your question the CRT is on Greyhawk.

To answer your request, I don't know. I've been mulling over some setting changes for a long time now (to both settings). I don't know where I want to go with it, or what options I want to throw out, but I will most likely leave the majority of the decisions in the public's hands. When the time comes that I'm willing to get serious about it, I'm sure there will be lots of threads, meetings, and polls about it.

Your point about Juxta eludes me because God's and other powerful characters are supposed to be weakened there. At least the setting is supposed to work one way, both the settings were picked to fill a need, and ironically neither of them is what they were supposed to be. Hence my contemplating scrapping one or both, or at the least redesigning them and how they run/work.

 

[Ssussunriyh]

Yes, Juxta would be a somewhat more "logical" place for a FR character to travel to (why go across planes to a tavern on Oerth, when there is probably one right down the street from wherever you live in Faerun?)

The trouble is, as popular as the FR setting is, FR characters are simply not given the opportunity to roleplay in a Realms-specific locale on site... and the Emporium just doesn't have the same cozy ambiance as a tavern. (For example, there's no fireplace to curl up in front of, and Feegee doesn't serve booze. )

There have been previous discussions about an FR-specific chat room in ISRP, but the powers-that-be have nixed the idea, for whatever reason (i.e., "not enough interest to merit the extensive changes to the chat site that would have to be made" etc. etc...)

 

[Fenmarel]

Yes the god characters are supposed to be weakened there. Before that gods and their avatars weren't even supposed to show up at all but that didn't stop the three avatars of Tymora, and dozens of other god characters. As I said in a previous post people aren't paying attention to the room description or simply aren't bothering to read it. Alot of people only remember that the Emporium has portals to just about anywhere they seem to forget that not everything can enter Juxta unhindered. As for the CRT there are folks that seem to forget that the tavern is set in a town not just there in limbo. As such most of the stuff that goes on there would get the tavern shut down and its owner put in stocks then hung or beheaded but there is no way around that being FFRP.

I remember the talks and even when the polls were taken and discussions made about the location of the tavern when the site went from TSR to WotC. I hope if there are more polls or discussions they don't turn out like those did. Seeing that the majority of people that were around then and participated in that aren't around now I won't get into it.

If there are some redesigns to one or both settings(whether one is changed to FR or not) perhaps a change should be made to the way rp is done here to guarantee the integrity of the settings. With FFRP in its base form you can do what ever you feel like doing. Here in itself is a problem. We don't have FFRP here but a limited form of it where you can play what you wish as long as you stick to the setting. That concept should be STRICTLY enforced, ESPECIALLY when a recognized setting produced by WotC is involved. Alot of the things that go on at the tavern are a mockery to the campaign setting. That to many players is just as important as it is to say Siani when it comes to the design of the tavern that she works hard on to give us information to portray an accurate depiction of what she sees in her mind ie- the tavern doesn't have rafters for folks to climb on like monkeys flinging feces everywhere.

Maybe I am just getting old and grumpy........umm okay for those that know me older and grumpier . Am I slowly starting to lose my mind or does any of this sound like it has merit to it?

 

[Tharivious_Meliamne]

I agree with Fenmarel here to a degree.

I'd say the key factor to what origin the characters have in the most prevalence is directly linked to what settings are most popular. Forgotten Realms has been the 'most popular' in sales terms for quite some time, and due to the marketting of WotC in general, this has been reinforced lately by releasing most of the D&D source books themed at Faerûnian setting guides. Add to this the fact that Greyhawk has been relegated to the 'default setting' for 3e/3.5e, and this makes it less distinguishable for some players. The setting just has more recognizability in the eyes of newer roleplayers since it's more clearly labeled and easily available, whereas newer players only see Greyhawk in a somewhat glossed over sense. Marketting affects the trends in character creation just as much as iconic character types do. I haven't been in much to see as of late, but I'm sure Eberron based characters aren't going to take too long to show up, if they haven't already.

As much as I like Juxta, I'd say that Sigil might actually be a better option for a planar metropolis type of locale. A readily and widely known setting, well liked, heavily devoted following, and numerous characters already have strong ties to it. It would cut down on godmoders as deific beings are utterly blocked from Sigil, which is widely known. Only issues with this that I see are the problems that the restructuring of certain planes from 2e going into 3e changes, newer players basing from D&D might not get the nuances of the setting, and I'm not really sure if the setting would even be accessible for these purposes due to a third party being the official Planescape publisher in this era.

Juxta has it's advantages in not being a canonical setting, which considering the sorts that go through the chats is a good thing. When it comes to beings doing what some characters do (and I mean the better played ones that stick to the setting rules here, not godmoders who ignore the basis of the rooms), it becomes an odd attempt to explain them within the confines of a setting like Oerth or Faerûn.

I like the Greyhawk setting for the tavern (and I personally prefer Greyhawk over Forgotten Realms as far as published settings go, and honestly wouldn't be very likely to spend time in a Faerûn based room), it adds a good, strong flavor to it... when the likes of Siani & co. are around to make sure the Greyhawk feel remains intact. Unfortunately, for the same reasons that Fen has mentioned, the realism of the room is hindered by some of the types that have been showing up as of late. A tavern for the purpose of the chatroom as is would, again unfortunately, likely function better in a planar metropolis, be it Juxta, Sigil, whatever that one in the Epic Level Handbook was called, or something else entirely. It would reduce the magnitude of some of these characters dramatically enough to make a difference, and if both main rooms are in the same setting again, then there will be fewer coherency issues of characters switching between rooms.

As it is now, I can see where newer players (and to a degree, older players too stuck [stubborn] in their ways to change at this point) would get caught in the blurs in the lines of the settings, either not understanding Juxta or not caring that the tavern is no longer in Juxta. Even when things are in plain sight, as the setting differences are, not all will look at what is placed in front of them. Having, for instance, the golems send a shout every so often to give a room reminder sounds like a good place to start, as Fen suggested, even if larger changes aren't made.

Then again, I could be completely out of touch with matters, I've spent a collective total of 10 hours in the chats in the last month or so. *shrug*

Just my thoughts on the matter, overly long winded as always.

 

[Krystal]

I dunno that I quite understand what people are trying to say.

I can say that yes, there seems to be a flux of certain character races/types. But that's nothing new. It has always been that way.

I do recall a time when there were quite a few characters from Krynn that frequented the tavern. Serioulsy, I think that the only way everyone could be happy is that if WotC had a room for ISRP for ALL the different settings they have or have had.

That means Greyhawk, that new one that that contest guy made, Faerun, Krynn, etc. Otherwise, you're going to have no end of argument as to where it should be.

And quite frankly, I don't want to be limited to a character type from wherever it is that the tavern is set in or ends up set in. For one thing, Krys is long developed. I'm not going to try to make a new Krys just to suit the setting. For another, I'm not completely familiar with any setting beyond Krynn. I know of them, I know a little about them--but I do not know their deities, their cities, etc as well as I know Krynn's... and I'm even a little blurry with some of the Kyrnnish stuff.

And quite frankly, Juxtaposition sucks. It was a good idea originally, but when the tavern returned, I've never gone to Juxta since then. There's no point, really. I mean.. open air market... it just doesn't have the same feel when playing as an inn does. People are swinging from trees, climbing walls, hiding behind stalls... it's a little hard to imagine everything and keep track of who you can and can't hear or see.

A tavern is a little easier to manage, and even then it is sometimes hard to try to make the decicsion of whether or not you can hear what another characters says or see what they do.

Either way, I think with a little careful work, you can explain most people who come.

Consider Krystal: She came here completely by "accident". She was more or less conscripted into duty to explore what was on the other side... IE: in her version of Krynn, the mages of the tower have stumbled upon a portal not to the abyss, but to another plane/world all together. She was sent to explore and figure out where this other place was, what it was about, etc.

I can think of many different ways to explain why your character, not from the setting, found themselves in the CRT. It just takes a little creativity.

Besides, I'd imagine having to enforce not only the CoC but setting stuff as well would probably make things worse not better. I mean, the WizO's get enough guff as it is for enforcing the rules (just ask them) of the site... imgaine what they'd get if they had to enforce setting stuff, too! Imagine the "Well, you have the interpretation of <insert setting specific thing here> and I think you're wrong! It should be this way not <insert way>! This is ridiculous! You don't know what you're <edited> doing!"

I mean... can't ANYONE see this scenario? Do we really want to add to people randomly blowing up in the rooms OOC? Do we really want people coming in and telling us or the WizO on duty OOC how things really should be enforced setting wise? That would be a huge annoyance and detraction from rping, in my honest opinion.

 

[Fenmarel]

Krystal you made some good points on the ooc disruptions that might arise from a setting change. Though the same thing happened when the Tavern was made. As for the WizO's getting grief over crap now there is a solution to that as well, ban their butts. REGARDLESS if a player is having a "bad day" if they start in with a WizO they should in one pm give them an answer to their problem including maybe an addy that discusses their problem. If they start to harass a WizO with what they think is right or wrong the WizO should simply refer them to their superiors and tell them they are the ones that would make the decision and then tell them to cease that for now the decision stands. One more pm on the matter they get the character banned. Would that tick off some people? Yes but ALL of us in life have to live with rules EVEN the school age kids. If you argue with your boss at work you might get fired, the punk argues with his principle and he/she might find themself in In School Suspension or having to go to school on Saturdays if the school allows such punishment. I've watched WizO's over the years give the same warnings to players over and over again. What good are warnings if no punishment follows through. I know that the WizO's do punish so don't take this as saying they let everything go.

A room for all settings was an idea I had but I know that it would never come to being so I didn't waste my time typing that idea but typed out my idea of the single setting.

I think Sigil has the potential to be both good and bad. The setting itself rocks as it is on the books. Though online it would have about the same flaws as Juxta due to the fact you would have Demon Lords and Devil Princes or even liches or vampires with their ghoul servants running around left and right simply because the setting allows it and folks would have to play the most bad ass coolest thing that could go there. But that isn't a very good reason simply because no matter what setting is used we will have that. Faerun would have avatars(hmm no change there having them now), someone would have to play the eighth sister chosen by Mystra that no one has heard of, Drizzt clones would be popping up left and right(hmm have that now). For the good it gives the folks that want to play tieflings or cambions a VERY good place to play them where they would be just as readily accepted as a human seeing that they are more common there. I didn't say trusted just accepted.

 

[Bhryn Astairre]

Hmmm, I think it's worth throwing in my two lil bits, as per usual.

To clear things up for some people, I'm not avidly throwing a friends name around here, just making a point concerning the settings.

On with the show:

I think what a lot of people are forgetting is that some of these players that have joined the settings, joined at a time when the Tavern (crt) was actually part of Juxtaposition. I'm one of those people, I haven't been around for ages, believe it or not, despite it seeming like it (quick, check my wrinkles!). Therefore, my first interaction experiences with the tavern were as my celestial who was curiously -just- learning how to plane hop and somehow managed to find herself thrust onto Juxta. There was the tavern, and so she explored it.

No I understand a lot of the confusion over some characters finding these settings these days, I at least have my reasons for Bhryn being there (She followed through the portal left, wondering where the tavern had gone) and of course when she found it, she rather happily stayed (mmmm free whiskey when Siani is on, heh, cheapskate!) but you also have to take into consideration those of us who joined around the very confusing time when Juxta and the Tavern were a synonymous setting.

I don't think, therefore, the tavern should be entirely abolished as a setting, perhaps just a change in how it interconnects to the rest of these realms.

The idea of a more metropolitan byway for travellers than Juxtaposition, as put forward by Fen, is a good idea. I used to spend a lot of time in Juxta with my characters, but for the last year, I've practically avoided it with the slew of avatars, clones and mystra's blah blah (crikey, I remember seeing at least four at one go!). It'd fit in better with the character ideals we have going and possibly present a more level playing field for those who do play evil (because looking at it right now, evil got the short stick of the deal, eh Becca?)

Juxta has become familiar, safe and dare I say it, passe in the minds of the players, a place where no evil can threaten and life just ticks by boringly... oh so boringly.

I think, if and when a new setting is to be discussed, I'd like to be around to hear it rather than being tired of seeing the same old settings every day, which has sort of made me waver from playing, most notably the promise of the TMP which quickly went bellyup.

A strangely placed player,
Bhryn

 

[Krystal]

I have one question:

It seems that what you are getting at is that you wish the crt to be in a setting where Devils, Demons, Liches, Vampires, Ghouls, etc are not likely/seen/allowed as pcs so that the WizOs can or will stop such characters from coming online?

Because that is what you seem to be driving at.