Crt

  • Thread starter Thread starter Fenmarel
  • Start date Start date
hmm........where to begin?

No where have I stated this would be a quick fix nor do I believe it would be so. There are no such things in life as quick fixes.

JeaJea actually I wasn't speaking of your characters when I made the comment about gods or their avatars. Actually I was talking about three characters that when I talked to them were inspired by some post on the D&D boards concerning how powerful avatars are and all happened to pick Tymora for some odd reason. Later there was an avatar of Torm, Helm, Cyric, Corellon Larethian.....hmm just realized how many there was and decided to leave off there as an example.

As Ssussunriyh(hope I got that right can't even pronounce it lol) said we do suffer a similiar fate to the Endowment for the Arts. With no structuring you get a WIDE mix of ideas of what individuals view as "art", most of which by popular opinion of the majority falls into the bad or crap category.

Saying that stricter enforcement is going to limit the sale of a product is as absurd as a few of you think my ideas are. The players that wish to truly buy a product aren't going to run away when they see a site is run by the rules of their game. They will observe and ask questions concerning the setting or the game mechanics or any other question concerning the game. Either they will be interested in it or not as with anything else. Seeing a product in use is a marketing strategy that has been in use since man first started to trade, barter or sell things. Would you as a consumer buy something if you had no clue what it was for, what its limitations are or what other consumers feel about the product? To point this down a marketing road isn't a good way to prove a point. I know for a fact that more people have purchased WotC products from viewing their respective boards then the chat site where people can roleplay and not use them. How can WotC sell anything from a RP site that doesn't even use it's own game as a basis? Name alone? When WotC bought out TSR only one member of our gaming group knew the company and any of its products. The rp site does didly for sales, what makes their sales is advertisement and the gimicks of changing little things in a game and reselling the core books over again. The RP site since it is Free Form Role Play doesn't advertise any of the WotC products(notice I said the RP site the Live room frequently has involved discussions on the games they have and authors for the various settings visit to have discussions about the new products in the other OOC rooms).

Yes in the books it says the rules are guidelines for the game. I don't play by every single rule or optional rule in the books, some of the optional rules don't have a place in my game and some of the standard rules contradict themselves later with another rule or guideline. Though I believe that when you get a game then throw away ALL of the rules you aren't playing the game at all. Instead you have kindergarden romp-a-room though with weapons and spells. That addage in the books isn't meant to have players throw away all of the guidelines but to mold the guidelines to fit their particular gaming needs and desires. Though when they have the D&D tournaments you don't see them tossing rules aside but adhere to them and most of the players have a splendid time.

To clear somethings up here......

I am not the type of player that ignores certain players because of the races,classes or lack of knowledge of D&D. I've RPed with self professed experts of the game right along with players that the only thing they have heard about D&D is that it is a game of devil worshippering, family sacrificing wackos. I've had many pleasant and unpleasant experiences with BOTH groups of players. If I was that type of player I would never interact with certain devils, demons, vampires(or versions of them), liches, dragons or even a few of the god characters. I am able to (unlike a few players) set aside my particular feelings and roleplay with many different types of players or characters. Yes I have an elitist attitude towards D&D but at least I can set my views aside and roleplay with people that don't know the game or have a style of rp that I don't particularly like or people that rp with certain players that I am not fond of.

As for stifling creativity, should creativity be encouraged to the point of being done with a total lack of self-restraint? Because I have seen some characters and events that go way beyond the merely unusual, into the patently absurd...

I was thinking the very same thing. It seems that is exactly what is wanted, the freedom to play what ever you idea you have no matter how absurd it is simply because you can.

I made a reply on the Rules and Regs boards that perhaps having something pop up now and then with links to the settings could help with newer players and those that refuse to use IE or Netscape and can't see the banner links. I sincerely believe(my one time being optimistic for the year) that much of the things that go on are due to ignorance of the setting they are playing in.
 

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Bhryn Astairre said:



One the subject of creativity, I have to say that knowing there is a limit to what a -character- can and cannot do is a wonderful thing, but stretching their storylines to the very limit of how they can be played etc is also a wonderful thing. It challenges not only you as the player, but the character and those that know them. I'm not saying that flooding with insane levels of 'powah' (Greyskull, heehee) is fun, but keeping it reasonable and remembering the setting does 'dumb you down', hence why my celestial more often than not ends up looking like Mike Tyson's dance partner. If she was in her own realm, things would be a different matter. :: shrugs :: But I enjoy playing her that way, my lil' punchbag (more often than not to the despair of others).

It seems that some people want to limit the extent of character freedom and choice, which is terrible! A character choosing why and how they are somewhere and with other people of vastly differing backgrounds is great (Krys being a prime example of movement from one world to another). I think the mixture of 'cultures' between characters allows for a richer gameplay experience.

Hmm those two paragraphs seem a direct contradiction. You state how limits are a good thing in one form yet turn around and say how terrible it is in the other. So limits of one aspect are fine but not another? The freedom of the player and character are directly linked to their limitations. If you have no limits on some aspects you have absolute freedom which is anarchy in its purest sense.

I've NEVER said that there shouldn't be characters from other worlds in the tavern. I believe they should be allowed. What I have said concerned only a small number of characters ie gods, demons, devils, things of this nature. If I had a problem with characters from other worlds I would make every single one of my characters be based out of the Greyhawk campaign setting and only interact with those from the same setting. I might be closed minded on some aspects but that doesn't make me blind to the picture as a whole.

And to be completely honest, if you visit other chat sites/rooms that have and embody what you want here... why haven't you gone the route so many others have? Stop coming here and go there.

Yes why don't all of us that have any problem with the site what so ever no matter how small or large just leave. Look around you and tell me how many of the vets with alot of exp on the site are still around? We've lost more good roleplayers over the years due to this very thing than we have gained. Some of them even tried to help change the site or what have you and were systematically run off because change is bad and evil hence they must have been satan spawn.

There isn't a single player(that actually has knowledge of the site and rp here) that can say everything is hunky dorey. Yet do most try and help to change things in a way that might get things working a bit more smoothly? No the majority sit back and simply complain when they see something wrong, snub their noses at offenders or simply ignore the person never offering any advice yet never offer anything as an idea whether it be good or bad for fear of getting flamed or ignored on the boards or when rping.
 

*yawns* Boy, a lot's happed since I put my head down... hehehe!

*hands Bhryn a He-Man action figure but keeps the battlecat for herself :devil:*

A couple of things I feel I should point out:
Live and Gaming are definetly part of the "RP chat site". But they deal with structured RP and game support.
ISRP section is not a sales pitch area. In fact I wouldn't be lying to state that some people see ISRP as wasted space and resources because of the fact we wouldn't cause enough sales to support the cost of existing.
Be that as it may, we still exist. Why? Because we have a following and make some players happy. And probably, happy players may upon occasion wander into other areas where the encounter product that they get interested in, or maybe because we cause a mixing of people who originally came with product in mind and that influences other people... I'm not sure there.

I think what most people are getting at whether they realise it or not is that both rules and freedom influence creativity. Sounds like a contradition? Think about it...
Freedom allows people to do what they like. Mix whatever they like, and not really have to deal with any consequences. So what happens if an elven maid falls for a half-vampire werewolf? (I dread to think... lol)
Restrictions makes people think of ways around the restrictions. How does a pirate walk into a law-driven town? In disguise? Sword out and swinging? How does he/she escape then?

Which do you prefer? For which setting, and why? That seems to be the core of this "which setting should we have" discussion, because it looks like you don't really mind that FR are on Oerth or vice versa so long as they can figure out a reason... :confused:
 

Re: my turn

rom said:
I do believe Rom qualifies as the patently absurd! hehehe

Rom does qualify as absurd, but personally I find such a character (silly, but ultimately benign) to be far more acceptable than a god-moder with an "I'm the biggest badass in the multiverse" attitude.

IMHO, there's no deficiency in the setting, or the moderation of the site. It's a particular kind of player that gets on my nerves... so I simply don't RP with them. No problem.
 

A few points, after willing myself to go back and read this entire thread start-to-finish again.


Reenforcing the CoC, Settings, or freedoms of the site and players 'works' in one case: A drastic change of settings and style to the entire site. With that, you can attract an entirely new crowd to be your patrons. You alienate your current players in the process, a majority of which would get fed up with the system and quit, while retaining a small crowd that's RP-crazed or likes the new format.

Toughening up the settings and how things run right now, without said-drastic changes, still alienates and infuriates your current patron, but draws a much small crowd. It isn't new. It isn't shiny. It isn't something you haven't seen before. It's the same thing you hated to begin with with babysitters.

Before I get an arguement, does anyone remember Eagle Eye Keep? It was meant to be just what you've suggested and defended, Fen. Other people's requests were heard, and acted on. How well did it do? I think the largest crowd in there at one time was myself and Rajak, or someone that reminds me of him. We passed a few lines of text between us, and I wandered back to the desolate wasteland between the O-'Roads and Juxtaposition to find something more interesting to do with my time. Why should it work any better this time?

If you really want to play a nice, strict game, get someone to run a setting you like in Limbo. I'm sure you won't have a hard time getting a time to play. No one uses that either.



As far as creative goes, common sense is the key. Yeah, we should all have an open-ended opportunity to play and do what we want. But within reason. No, someone shouldn't say "You can't do this!", but we shouldn't abuse the flexability we're given. As much as someone's entitled to play what they want, when they want, how they want, there is such thing as playing a characgter badly. When you toss aside all reason and common knowledge, you're going to get ignored and shunned. Go for it if you want, but don't complain about it afterwards.



We've had so many god-damn changes to this site, and in every way imaginable, that I'm fed up with the shots about how static the ISRP is, how people are all talk and no action, or about how everyone's so freaking scared of change.

Our settings have changed drastically, time and time again, to satisfy the demands of the players or the wisdom of the Team. Policies get introduced, complained about, rewritten, removed, and reintroduced over and over and over. The latest fads cycle in and out. Players cycle in and out. Characters make spectacular entrances, close friends, then vanish into obscurity.

The only things that don't change are the complaints: Elitist Oldies, Moronic Newbies, Powergaming, Settings, CoC. Amazingly enough, I think all of these have gotten cited in this thread. Hell, I think the Drow got mentioned along the way. Only 'Obvious Evil' has failed to make the list so far.

Actions speak louder than words. We don't need the mindless, complaint-ridden threads that spew the same thing out over and over again. It's almost all I see on the boards, for the last year. It's old, dead, gone, and smushed by the dead horse.



Enough is enough. No more threads meant to bait a crowd into debates and arguements. No more 'holier-than-thou' attitudes. No more over-zealous, over-offended rebuttles. And no more preaching. Cut the crap. Let it die, and play the game.

G'night.

-Wren
 



I won't deny that changes will alienate some people. As the site is being run now more of our former players have been alienated. The number that have left never to return or only to come around to browse the boards VASTLY outnumbers the ones that stayed around. Most of the reasons related to the site were things that I've mentioned in my posts. Not all of them of course, some had RL issues that came up.

Why should we not have posts like this? I don't see anything wrong with debates on issues. For the most part most of us that have posted have done so in the spirit of a debate on the facts at hand. Yes over the last two years there have been several posts similiar in nature to this one. Hmm think that says something or just a coincedence? I think posts like this one and similiar ones might possibly have an effect for some. No I am not naive enough to think that everything will go away with a post or the wave of a magic wand. I know that most players don't bother reading the boards, don't post or when they do read they pay little to no attention to what is being said.

I received a pm stating how I had twisted the words of one poster. Did I twist them? No not as they were presented. I was told numerous times to just go someplace else if I didn't like what happened around here.

Yes I remember Eagle Ford Keep. I remember 10 people in there once(most I ever saw) but usually it was empty. I can't even remember what the setting was or how it was run so it would be pointless for me to comment further on that.

I see merits and flaws on both sides of the issue I brought forward. If we do it one way one group gets upset if we do it another way then some other group is upset. Why not a happy medium where both are happy. How about one room with total freedom and more loosely controlled as it is now and another that is truly setting specific with stricter controls? For the most part only the super crazy, wacko, what ever you wish to call them characters would be hindered. I've seen the characters of most of the posters here and their characters would fit EITHER of the settings. Most that have posted put alot of the restrictions on themself that I've talked about. The ones that would be affected more would be the ones that most players complain about in the first place.

If my ideas aren't feasible in your mind offer something you do think is workable. Got an idea that you were bouncing around in your head but discarded? Put it up for all to see, don't keep it to yourself.
 

Fenmarel said:
Why not a happy medium where both are happy. How about one room with total freedom and more loosely controlled as it is now and another that is truly setting specific with stricter controls?

Could've sworn I already cited an instance that it was tried, and failed miserably. Maybe it's just me.

It isn't a happy medium. It might be a happy medium for you, since you could sit in the stricter setting all day and enjoy, same as a total Freeformer would enjoy the other room, but it isn't a medium. It's splitting the player base, and despite what you'd like to think, the population on it's whole would be rather put out by the change. The site is already at a happy medium. Forcing the crowd into total chaos or total law don't work. But hey, Eagle Eye, Eagle Ford, whatever it was - it's been done, it didn't work. Didn't work then, why would it work now.

The wants of the few don't justify the suffering of the many.


"The ones that would be affected more would be the ones that most players complain about in the first place." As much as I contribute to the complaints about said-players, they are still PLAYERS. They still have a right to play how they do, and they still contribute to our community. Whether you intended it or not, that suggested to me that you think you're better than them, in so many words. Nuh-uh, don't work that way. That same small group that suffers is about as large as the group that benefits. So.. no.


My idea is that you accept the concept that altering the ISRP in any one of the two directions would cut the legs out from under a group of players; that the 'happy medium' has already been tried. The site's about as neutral as it's going to get.


It's not a few over two years.. try two monthes. One month. Hell, one week. It's the same stuff coughed up, by the same people, time and again.

My MSN addy is wrensilversand@hotmail.com. I'd be happy to chat if you feel I've misunderstood something or would like to comment. But in the meantime, this is a tired topic and a tired thread. I'm not continuing or freshening it.

-Wren
 

After thinking about this I really don't give a rat's arse one way or the other. I'll just continue to do like everyone else does.

Have fun all
 

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