D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Minigiant]

I backed DC20. Since doing that, I've heard some of Dungeon Coach's design ideas. The guy has been in the hobby for less than 5 years. He's basically played no games besides 5e D&D (maybe he's looked at PF2).
Routinely when he's talking to other content creators he's like "oh, I haven't heard of 13th Age" and "what's Savage Worlds."
DC20 is trying to reinvent the wheel in a lot of ways ... just because the designer has never seen a bike before.

This is why I'm usually iffy on fantasy heartbreakers and D&D killers.

To me the best way to make a new standalone designed to switch people to it is to

1. Determine a main premise for the game
2. Collect ideas that match that promise from several additions of the game you're basing it off of as well as other RPGs.
3. Fill in the gaps with your own original idea
4. Cut and adjust so everything works together

A heavily modded version of a game only works when it was designed to run alongside an existing popular game much like Level Up or PF1. And even then you might want to look outward to other games and editions.

Selling your own book of house rules on top of another game as it's own game does not sound easy. Which is why you often here a press of emotion about these types of games themself and the mechanics or settings.

 

[DarkCrisis]

Its funny seeing all these 5E players becoming the very Grognards they despised.

"MY edition is already great. Don't need a new one."

"I'm so done with WotC, I'm switching systems."

"etc etc etc"

 

[Doc_Klueless]

This is why I'm usually iffy on fantasy heartbreakers and D&D killers.

Yeah, I'm only really iffy on FHB and D&D Killers if they start off by saying that the game they're based their own game on sucks. I mean, why would they base their game on a game that they think sucks? Are they just trying to cash in on D&D's popularity because they know their own game could not succeed on its own merits?

But let me be honest with myself here. The Kickstarter doesn't say that D&D sucks. The OP did. The Kickstarter really talks about how they think they've improved on baseline D&D and here's how... etc., etc.

That I don't mind at all. The creator clearly loves D&D. At least enough to base his own game off it.

While I do see parts of it as intriguing and potentially an improvement on D&D 5e, it's not enough of an improvement for me to move from D&D now that I'm back in the fold for my Fantasy RPG fix. When I do my non-D&D games, they're almost always non-D&D adjacent and a different genre. So, for example, I'm also playing Bladerunner and Alien.

 

[payn]

Its funny seeing all these 5E players becoming the very Grognards they despised.

"MY edition is already great. Don't need a new one."

"I'm so done with WotC, I'm switching systems."

"etc etc etc"

I think we are reading the tea leaves differently here. I see an upset OP followed by a whole lot of shrugs from 5E fans. Think you are taking a few disgruntled folk and making a legion out of it.

 

[Oofta]

Its funny seeing all these 5E players becoming the very Grognards they despised.

"MY edition is already great. Don't need a new one."

"I'm so done with WotC, I'm switching systems."

"etc etc etc"

It's funny seeing people come on a forum dedicated to D&D to tell us how terrible our game is and then act all holier-than-thou because they "know better".

 

[DarkCrisis]

I think we are reading the tea leaves differently here. I see an upset OP followed by a whole lot of shrugs from 5E fans. Think you are taking a few disgruntled folk and making a legion out of it.

Oh, I know. 5.5 will do just fine. Even those who gripe will buy. Heck even I plan to buy it.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

I suspect that I'll play D&D 2024 even though I'd rather play other games because it's the game my group wants to play. And I just want to hang out and play with my friends.

As I grow older, my attitude has changed a lot towards games. I'm no longer searching for the perfect system. I no longer want to optimize. I no longer want to mess with finicky intragame systems.

I just wanna play and laugh with my friends and I've found I can do that with just about any system... Except FATE.

 

[LordEntrails]

Put some real consideration into not giving that corporation more money. They don't care about us

No corporation really does. If you don't have a personal connection to DC20, then I can guarantee they don't care about you as a person either (more than the indivuals care about any other individual). Just as a customer and supporter.

Maybe games aren't as "important", but they still matter, and I want to see quality reign, not entities like World of Warcraft and McDonalds. The world deserves better.

Quality as defined by you huh?

Also, people don't know what they like best if they don't experience alternatives.

And how do you know what we've played? Have you ever played Gangbusters or Tunnels & Trolls? What about Runequest or even Elfquest? Obviously the creator of DC20 hasn't. Nor has he played some of the more recent and relatively popular competitors to D&D. That's just the height of hubris to imply others don't know enough to make decisions for themselves.

But it's frequently the case that people have only experienced a sliver of what exists.

Now this is a true statement. Just like the creator of DC20 has played even less than a sliver. So if that's your criteria for quality or good judgement, you need to find another creator to support.

I'd also posit that most people have a bunch of things they would ideally like to change about D&D.

I'd posit that you are wrong. Yes on forums such as this most of the active posters do have things they would like to change about D&D. But "we" represent less than 1% of the D&D fan base. I'd posit with much more certainty that most players just want to play and have fun.

 

[Mistwell]

So what is another option? From what I have seen, the DC20 system blows D&D away and is the best thing to be supporting right now.

You probably did more harm to the DC20 system sales with this thread than anyone has ever done before. It was deeply unwise to choose the approach you chose for this sales pitch. Instead of just talking about what you liked, which tends to be a compelling approach, you chose instead to tell people in their own fan forum that it was bad to like what they like and they should instead like what you like. That approach wouldn't be persuasive to you, for the same reasons it's not persuasive to others. It's just a really terrible strategy.

 

[Doc_Klueless]

EDIT: The below post has some fairly icky, real life description on the results of Vaping. Read at your own risks.

Could also use smoking as an example. It used to be everywhere, because it was seen as socially cool and "not that unhealthy", but thankfully that is no longer the case.

Oh... my... gosh...

Ok. This is a huge tangent but it's gotta be said.

I'm an anesthesia provider. A large, large, LARGE percentage of what I do deals with airway, breathing, oxygenation and such. And let me put this out there: Smoking is STILL huge. Enormous. It's just that it's not done so much in public. It's just a "dirty little secret" now.

And when I was vacationing over seas last summer... Smoking everywhere. Lots and lots of smoking.

Instead we have Vaping which is just as destructive to lungs and health as smoking. It really irritates me when I interview a patient and they tell me they quit smoking and only vape now.

You would not believe the copious amounts of thick, milky secretions I have to suction from endotracheal tubes after intubation to insure adequate ventilations and respirations and oxygenation and ... etc... etc...

And if we go prone, it just ooooozes from them. It's disgusting.

And when I have to extubate at the end of surgeries, I know they're going to have a hyperreactive airway which has a greater chance of leading to laryngospasms and bronchospasms.

It's just awful.

So, really, we've just swapped one lung destroying habit for another. People only think Vaping is healthier than smoking because there is decades less research and documentation on it.

Bleh.

Double bleh.

Ahem... now back to your regularly scheduled postings...

Heh.