D&D General D&D 2024 does not deserve to succeed

[Oofta]

I want to talk about TTRPGs (design, theory and practice), and my experience and inclination is for D&D (all editions) and D&D-adjacent games. Given that anywhere I go in the community looking for those things I will find the vast majority of discussion revolving around WotC, where do suggest I go?

It sucks, but if you find these forums frustrating because D&D isn't your thing I just don't see there being much reward for posting here since this is dedicated to the current version of the game. Of course you're going to get D&D related discussions on a D&D forum. I understand feeling ... I dunno ... left out I guess or not knowing where to go for conversation because I don't give a fig about professional sports. Yet almost every "guy" conversation is about whatever sport is current. But going to a fantasy football league forum wouldn't do much good either.

Whish I had an answer, but sometimes there just isn't one assuming you've looked into the other forums on Enworld. Maybe someone else would have a suggestion.

 

[Remathilis]

The market doesn't feel smaller (it very much isn't). It does, however, feel much more WotC dominated than it ever did before. That's what I wish was different.

Smaller in terms of games not d20 based. The market for games not built off of WotC's SRD (formerly or currently) is far smaller than it was when GURPs, Palladium, Storyteller and MERPs shared shelf space with D&D. My FLGS carries D&D, Pathfinder, and a few smaller tiles (Edge of the Empire, Marvel Multiverses, etc) but while RPGs are bigger, finding games that don't share D&D's DNA are vanishingly small.

 

[Corinnguard]

Smaller in terms of games not d20 based. The market for games not built off of WotC's SRD (formerly or currently) is far smaller than it was when GURPs, Palladium, Storyteller and MERPs shared shelf space with D&D. My FLGS carries D&D, Pathfinder, and a few smaller tiles (Edge of the Empire, Marvel Multiverses, etc) but while RPGs are bigger, finding games that don't share D&D's DNA are vanishingly small.

True. If you visit any Barnes and Noble bookstore these days, you are more likely to see 5e D&D books and PF2 Remaster in the store's small RPG section.

 

[Retreater]

And the laziness of the designers where there were abilities that seemed to be written without even a thought towards play (Assassin, Beast Master) or were just phoned in (at least a quarter and probably half the Warlock invocations).

Not intending to be snarky at all, but writing completely in earnest... Is 2024 improved at all? I've heard of completely broken spells, combinations that don't work, all discovered within hours of getting the book.
I've heard "worse than 2014" from reviewers ... several of them. I've heard it called a rush job.
I get the impression that this is just a product for a product's sake - no real improvement or refinement to the game.

 

[Minigiant]

Not intending to be snarky at all, but writing completely in earnest... Is 2024 improved at all? I've heard of completely broken spells, combinations that don't work, all discovered within hours of getting the book.
I've heard "worse than 2014" from reviewers ... several of them. I've heard it called a rush job.
I get the impression that this is just a product for a product's sake - no real improvement or refinement to the game.

From the base what @Neonchameleon says, yes.

2014 was a "How do you do fellow kids" apology edition heavily designed for grognards. It's mechanical success is mostly though to its simplicity, ease of DM ruling, and a massive marketing campaign.

2024 fixes a lot of the aspects that the original designers phoned in due to dislike or an inexperience with that aspect of fantasy or never completed due to lack of time.

2024 could have done more but just like 2014 and 2008 they didn't have enough time to hit everything.

 

[dbolack]

The '80s were also great, for mostly the same reason. I'd take the smaller hobby as a worthy sacrifice for a healthier, more diverse and varied one.

I am terribly puzzled how you feel it was more diverse in the 80s.

 

[dbolack]

Smaller in terms of games not d20 based. The market for games not built off of WotC's SRD (formerly or currently) is far smaller than it was when GURPs, Palladium, Storyteller and MERPs shared shelf space with D&D. My FLGS carries D&D, Pathfinder, and a few smaller tiles (Edge of the Empire, Marvel Multiverses, etc) but while RPGs are bigger, finding games that don't share D&D's DNA are vanishingly small.

This has as much to do with the change in how books are purchased this decade as it does market share.

 

[Clint_L]

Not intending to be snarky at all, but writing completely in earnest... Is 2024 improved at all? I've heard of completely broken spells, combinations that don't work, all discovered within hours of getting the book.
I've heard "worse than 2014" from reviewers ... several of them. I've heard it called a rush job.
I get the impression that this is just a product for a product's sake - no real improvement or refinement to the game.

My monk is VASTLY improved. Overall, I think the game is improved but it's not a vastly changed experience. Classes are more balanced, but it's not like balance was appalling before. From what I've read, the books are much better designed and easier to navigate, especially for new players, so that's a big plus.

But, I mean, it's subjective. Everyone will have a different framework for what "improved" means. For me, it's improved, but I already thought the game was pretty good. The 2024 PHB is certainly worth my 25 bucks.

You generally don't seem to like D&D5e, so I doubt you'll be impressed by it. You're not really the target audience - if it was impressing you, I think a whole lot more people would be disappointed with it.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It sucks, but if you find these forums frustrating because D&D isn't your thing I just don't see there being much reward for posting here since this is dedicated to the current version of the game. Of course you're going to get D&D related discussions on a D&D forum. I understand feeling ... I dunno ... left out I guess or not knowing where to go for conversation because I don't give a fig about professional sports. Yet almost every "guy" conversation is about whatever sport is current. But going to a fantasy football league forum wouldn't do much good either.

Whish I had an answer, but sometimes there just isn't one assuming you've looked into the other forums on Enworld. Maybe someone else would have a suggestion.

Hence I remain here. At least these are the folks who make Level Up. And its better than abandoning community discussion altogether.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I am terribly puzzled how you feel it was more diverse in the 80s.

Depends on what you mean by diverse. I remember a lot of different games being played, discussed and written about in the forums and periodicals of the time. D&D was still the big dog, but the other dogs weren't nearly so much smaller.