D&D 4.0 - What the?

[Telperion]

No offense, but you seem to have some inside information the rest of us don't. You speak with such certainty and conviction that I would like to know what other insights you have about Hasbro's grand schemes involving D&D.

Seriously speaking: I have no knowledge what-so-ever. Fact is that WotC will want more and more money in the future. So, I would guess that they will have tired of creating 3.5 updates / releases in about two years, and then it will be a good time to release a new line of products: D&D 4.0, or whatever they wish to call it.

If you find my pessimistic, capitalistic, comments unpleasant then by all means ignore them. I certainly don't waste much of my time on these sorts of threads. What will be, will be...and so forth...

 

[Telperion]

Also: I suppose I should have placed some brackets on that first message that I sent to this thread. It wasn't meant as any sort of "truth", but as my opinion on where the RPG industry is going.

 

[Oni]

Make the abilities of the character more important than the items he or she carries. If they carry over the feat mechanic to 4th edition I think it could be used to do just this, through feat chains and class specific feats. I'd rather see fighters winning through skill than their magic sword of bling bling +5.

Ditch overly specific classes. Once more feats come to the aid here. Make it so things like the barbarian and the monk can both be built off the same base class.

Fix multiclassing (I like the current system pretty well, but it doesn't work well for spellcasting classes).

Get away from the reliance on minitures.

Ditch the Vancian system, add a different system for different types of spellcasters would be nice, or one that is generic enough that it fits all (the vancian system is weird, and it just adds to the weirdness that both wizards and clerics use the same oddball system).

Reduce the powercurve, that is make lower level characters tougher and high level characters less so.

Unique abilities or spells only for specialists wizards would be nice too.

Well that's all that I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[irdeggman]

I'd like to see a revision in the Armor system. AC won't go away, but it could be revised. A defense class, like that used in other WotC d20 products that is based on class level would be very good if combined with some kind of damage reduction for armors and shields could be revised to fit in. Star Wars d20 had some progress on this level and would probably be some sort of starting point for WotC.

Cleric class needs some kind of level based benefits, other than 'new spells' - all of the other spell casting classes are more level based than they are.

 

[Viehl]

I predict a strong tie-in with D&D Miniatures.

I imagine the 4.0 version of the D&D Adventure Game/D&D Basic Set will be more like a miniatures boardgame with roleplaying options than a roleplaying game with options for using miniatures. Think Hero Quest/Warhammer Quest.

I also believe that miniatures will become even more essential to the combat system. I've no idea how, though. Maybe they'll change Move to be in some kind of abstract Squares, with no pre-defined size. Or perhaps your PC can only have the equipment featured on his mini.

Ultimately, though, I believe this attempt to steal market shares from Games Workshop is doomed to fail.

 

[Gez]

I would really like to have spellcasting based on a BAB-like traits. That would stack from class to class. No longer the need to make "multige classes" like arcane trickster or mystic theurge.

 

[Grazzt]

Personally I'm quite happy with 3.5, but they will publish 4.0 sooner rather than later. I hope it won't happen too many years before 2010, but that's hoping for too much.

Most likely yes.

Figure a year of brain-storming (they are doing it already, no doubt about it) and another year of figuring out the best way to get our money. Plus a bit of time to commercialize, so I would hazard a guess at August/September 2006.

2006 sounds like a solid number, unless its 2005.

I'm guessing they will grab stuff from Mage: The Ascension and do a whole new spell casting system. They'll drown the importance of classes with a plethora of "new and improved" choises. Probably something ripped out of Role Master.

I dont know about grabbing stuff from Mage, and what could be grabbed from RM that wasnt already. Check out 3e and the RM stuff. Lots of similarities there. Likely has to do with Monte Cook working on RM before coming to TSR (back in the day).

I don't think they have the guts to drop the D20. I mean that's been their way of diceding the fate of PC's since the dawn of D&D, but then again...they did it to the Damage Reduction system, so anythings possible I suppose...

I personally like the new DR rules (well, except for the "magic" crap...lumping all of them under one heading doesnt work for me). I dont know about d20...just depends in the end how viable it has been for WotC as to whether there will be an SRD/OGL 4e.

In the end it will be a hybrid of so many other games that none will recognize it as D&D.

nah- disagree here. Classes, alignment, hit points, all the sacred cows that make D&D, well D&D, will still be there.

The question is of course: will 4.0 sell? I think they'll spend a whole year thinking about that one question before they release it .

Of course it will. Now, perhaps not as much if they release it say next year (as opposed to waiting a few more years), but yes...it will sell. There are enough people in the gaming world that will basically buy WotC (and back in the day TSR) D&D product hands down without a doubt/question/reservation whether its good or not.

 

[Henry]

Oh, what the heck; I haven't yet participated in one of these before.


What would I want to see?

-Fewer base classes, but more customization through feats and skills. Keep Fighter / Priest / Rogue / Mage (Wizard now carries too much "preparation" connotation, and Sorcerer is now "on the fly.")

-Break Feats into feats and talents, like in d20 Modern. Use the Talents to separate Wizard from Sorcerer, and Druid from Cleric.

-Reign in the power of the damned clerics. The "munchkin" in me loves 'em, but they do strike me as being TOO self-sufficient. NO class is as self-sufficient as a tricked-out cleric, I've seen in time and time again in many games. Artillery platform, healer, and decent straight-up fighter, the cleric is marginally overpowered.

-I don't know how, but find a way to slightly divorce magic item acquisition from estimation of CR's and power levels. It doesn't have to go away, but tone it down slightly, to assume that a magic +1 weapon is NOT gained by level 4, but by level 5 or 6 perhaps. Assume one-shot power acquisition through level 2-3, with permanent magic items by level 4.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

 

[MerakSpielman]

I'd like to see fewer classes, PrCs in particular, but I'd like fewer core classes, too.

I like customization of character abilities to character concept as much as anybody else, but this is just getting crazy.

Instead, what I'd like to see are more feats - both a larger list of feats and each character possessing more feats. Say you have the Wizard class. You could make him into the equivelent of a sorcerer or bard via feats for spontanious casting or magical music. The Cleric could be made into a Druid by taking feats that allowed wildshaping, etc... Fighter could be made into Paladin/Barbarian/Ranger equivelents via the same method. Or you could make some sort of wacky combination.

edit: I like Henry's ideas for classes. They jive with mine and take less room to type.

I guess it boils down to making most class abilities into feats and removing the multiplicitiy of classes/PrCs. This would allow for even greater customization of characters. The downside is the amount of testing it would have to endure to make sure there aren't any weird feat combos that unbalance the game, like what happens now if you mix feats from different sources.

I'd also like to see real, honest-to-goodness, set in stone RULES FOR MAGIC ITEM CREATION. Not guidelines. Real, core rules. I want all the items in the DMG to be made with this method. I want it to be sleek, efficient, and immune to power-gaming idiocies. I don't want to see another thread in the House Rules forum with somebody trying to make a ring of True Strike for a few measly thousand gold so they can get +20 on every single attack they every make ("it's only a first level spell, so it shouldn't be unbalanced....") Once these rules are set, put them in the freakin' PH instead of the DMG so the players can see what their craft-item feats can do. Charts for scroll and potion creation are, at the very least, a must-have.

Stats for summonable monsters need to be in the PH. Heck, a description of the Leadership feat needs to be in the PH. The PH needs to stand on its own - a player shouldn't ever need to even think about looking in another book.

I want Epic rules, but I don't want them to be called Epic. I just want them to be part of the game. Like the chart in 3.5 for taking the character beyond 20th, but better fleshed out. Spellcasting beyond 9th level (please don't call it Epic Spellcasting) needs to be revamped. Don't make epic feats, but make feat chains that are so long, they could take 30 character levels to complete.

Get those guys at Code Monkey Publishing to finish a character generator/editor/4.0 Etools before the game ships. Put a demo in the PH just like before, but have a real product ready to buy if folks like the demo. E-Tools could have made so much money if it had been ready and working when 3.0 came out; instead, with all the mishaps and setbacks, it survived only as a niche community.

More monsters! I know there's a certain profit incentive to separate out the monster books and sell them singly, but I'd just LOVE a fat tome, combining MM1, MM2, FF, ELH monsters, etc... Templates for all undead.

 

[Anubis the Doomseer]

I'd like to see some clean up of the core classes. Fighter, Rogue, Spontaneous Spellcaster (your Sorceror/Favored Soul types) and Prepared Spellcaster (the Wizard/Cleric).

For 4th edition keep divine/arcane magics seperate, but include rules for relaxing that barrier (which is really should be a setting-controlled variable). In later editions move to make a unified spell system the norm and the arcane/divine divide the optional rule grandfathered in.

Add real skill magics (from a previous thread on here). Swap out True Strike for something that scales a bit better (and will work better with a set in stone magic item guidelines). These spells would be useful for multiclassers and for certain types of modeled casters.

The magic system does need a BAB-like system that allows caster level to increase between classes, to reduce the need for stopgap prestige classes like the Mystic Theurge, allowing the Theurge to be its own sort of deal.

Do a cleanup of the Feat list, firm up the chains to a degree. Add in Talents (a very useful system that would help distinguish characters). Get a good idea in your mind what exactly a prestige class should be for and stick to it.