D&D 5th Edition!!! (WITH POLL!!!)

[TheAuldGrump]

Regardless of any rules changes, I think 5e should definitely avoid the kind of changeover that happened between 3.5 an 4 - insulting the style of game that many folks had enjoyed was just plain a bad move. The thing to bear in mind about 'bad-wrong fun' is that the folks who like it are having fun, even if it is 'traipsing through the fairy gates to interact with the little people'.

I'd like to see something more akin to the OGL than the GSL - retain a STL as a separate entity from the game system license.

The Auld Grump

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I'm going to take the slightly controversial position here of: No, they shouldn't.

This hobby should be moved - by force if necessary (read: you can't play otherwise) - to a heavily digital play medium. The days of playing without laptops or smartphones at the table should be relegated to editions past. If rulebooks are sold, they ought to be available in ebook format of some kind. Ideally, however, 5e supplements ought simply to be released as digital expansions operating on a subscription basis. If you subscribe, you have access to the whole game, simple as that.

Yes, there would be kicking and screaming, accusations of baby-killing and dog-kicking, etc., but the hobby would be cleansed and purified in the flames of (digital) revolution.

That would be a good way to kill the hobby. The sooner people figure out they can't compete with WoW, the better. Going digital just means they'll do everything MMO's do, but worse.

 

[Dannager]

That would be a good way to kill the hobby. The sooner people figure out they can't compete with WoW, the better. Going digital just means they'll do everything MMO's do, but worse.

Trying to compete with WoW would be a mistake. Fortunately, a digital, subscription-based tabletop-style RPG service doesn't come anywhere near WoW territory. In fact, speaking as someone who is good friends with a handful of Blizzard employees in real life, I can guarantee you that some of the people who make WoW would be playing D&D online.

By way of evidence, see D&D Insider. It is already a digital, subscription-based tabletop-style RPG service, and by all accounts it is very successful for WotC. Far from a mistake, I firmly believe that WotC's decision to develop a robust online service supporting D&D is going to be viewed as one of the most important innovations in tabletop roleplaying history.

Whenever I hear someone compare online D&D to WoW, I'm immediately forced to conclude that they don't understand one or the other.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Agreed. Tabletop games and MMOs are totally different things.

Both are nice, but different.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Trying to compete with WoW would be a mistake. Fortunately, a digital, subscription-based tabletop-style RPG service doesn't come anywhere near WoW territory. In fact, speaking as someone who is good friends with a handful of Blizzard employees in real life, I can guarantee you that some of the people who make WoW would be playing D&D online.

By way of evidence, see D&D Insider. It is already a digital, subscription-based tabletop-style RPG service, and by all accounts it is very successful for WotC. Far from a mistake, I firmly believe that WotC's decision to develop a robust online service supporting D&D is going to be viewed as one of the most important innovations in tabletop roleplaying history.

Whenever I hear someone compare online D&D to WoW, I'm immediately forced to conclude that they don't understand one or the other.

I understand both. I've been playing D&D for 30 years and WoW for almost 6. Digital tools to enhance play are one thing, but going completely online is another. Online games are great - when you can't get a ftf game, but they are a poor substitute for the real thing. If I'm forced to subscribe to something to play, well, that's when I'll quit playing or play older games (which I pretty much do anyway). I love pdfs for prep and reference, but I want real books in my hands when I play and I'm afraid digital doritos and Guinness just ain't gonna cut it.

 

[Balesir]

This hobby should be moved - by force if necessary (read: you can't play otherwise) - to a heavily digital play medium. The days of playing without laptops or smartphones at the table should be relegated to editions past. If rulebooks are sold, they ought to be available in ebook format of some kind. Ideally, however, 5e supplements ought simply to be released as digital expansions operating on a subscription basis. If you subscribe, you have access to the whole game, simple as that.

I agree with you completely, except for the part I highlighted, which I loathe, detest and vilify with the most extreme prejudice possible. If D&D (or any other game) becomes subscription only with no persistence and no option but to play the precise rules version supported by the publisher, I'll be out before you can spit. That represents the most vile, manipulative and control-freaky element of modern business that deserves and needs to be taken out and strangled - I think I'll call it "mother-may-I-ware"...

Apart from that, though, digital would be fine. Purchasable digital tools, e-books (all registered for support access and with subscription updates and expansions would be fine) and online character and houserule sharing (possibly even subscription, although character files have to be swappable without) sounds sweet, in fact.

 

[Dannager]

I understand both. I've been playing D&D for 30 years and WoW for almost 6. Digital tools to enhance play are one thing, but going completely online is another. Online games are great - when you can't get a ftf game, but they are a poor substitute for the real thing. If I'm forced to subscribe to something to play, well, that's when I'll quit playing or play older games (which I pretty much do anyway). I love pdfs for prep and reference, but I want real books in my hands when I play and I'm afraid digital doritos and Guinness just ain't gonna cut it.

Oh, forgive me, I wasn't suggesting that D&D should move to an online-play-only model. I was suggesting that they move to a digital-only model. I absolutely think that face-to-face play is the ideal, but I feel that face-to-face play (and the hobby in general) can be significantly improved by putting everything online - the rules, the tools, heck, even the playmat. I was lucky enough to get the chance to see SurfaceScapes in action last year when it was being shown off, and I absolutely feel that a digital surfacetop format is the natural progression of this hobby. Where we used to have books, we'll have e-readers or tablets. Where we used to have character sheets, we'll have smartphones or tablets. Where we used to have handouts, we'll have displays. Where we used to have Chessex battle mats, we'll have a touch screen table. D&D, as with all cultural phenomena, evolves with time. This is the way I see it headed. It's simply a matter of how fast we get there.

 

[Dannager]

I agree with you completely, except for the part I highlighted, which I loathe, detest and vilify with the most extreme prejudice possible. If D&D (or any other game) becomes subscription only with no persistence and no option but to play the precise rules version supported by the publisher, I'll be out before you can spit.

I don't think this will ever be the case. Regardless of format, the goal of anyone publishing D&D should be to facilitate play in the best manner possible, not adjudicate it for you.

That said, I don't think you're going to have a choice as far as subscriptions go. Digital models are typically subscription- or micropayment-based, and I feel D&D is probably going to stick with subscriptions. It just makes the most sense for a constantly-evolving game.

 

[Balesir]

That said, I don't think you're going to have a choice as far as subscriptions go. Digital models are typically subscription- or micropayment-based, and I feel D&D is probably going to stick with subscriptions. It just makes the most sense for a constantly-evolving game.

Subscription is fine for updates and support - it is not fine if the closing down of the subscription service means the whole "facility" evaporates in a puff of electrons.

It's not "cheap" or "free" that I want - its control over my own gaming.

 

[Kaodi]

I don't think that's going to work.

About the only somewhat-common theme through this whole thread has been a desire for simplicity.

Yet this would take a complex system (4e) and incorporate major elements of another complex system (PF), which will give you ... er ... more complexity?

Lan-"the 5e rulebook can either help you play a fun, exciting game or be used as a bludgeoning weapon to kill bears"-efan

Hmmm... I see your concern. However, I must protest the oversimplification of my proposal. If one is designing a motorcycle, one does not, after all, simply weld an automobile chassis onto a bicycle frame and market the "finished product".