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D&D and the rising pandemic


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wicked cool

Explorer
Theres no talk about Colorado on this. We have The usual southern states that are bashed here and yet no mention of Colorado which is polar opposite politically and is just as open . Theres no talk that all those bad springbreakers didnt get sick or that the nursing homes in many states were not affected like basically 3 Northeast states (90,340 deaths and 28,302 are from New York) ? Is there any talk that the big box stores get to sell all goods and yet until basically recently or not yet many places cant open? Are we saying that Walmart is more responsible than the small craft store or small bookstore?

The Dutch believe that a Mink may have affected a human and all mink farms are getting mandatory testing and that CATS mya be spreading the(CNN) disease

World Bank group is warning that 60 million people (100 countries) could be pushed into extreme poverty (less than 2 US dollars a day)
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Theres no talk about Colorado on this. We have The usual southern states that are bashed here and yet no mention of Colorado which is polar opposite politically and is just as open . Theres no talk that all those bad springbreakers didnt get sick or that the nursing homes in many states were not affected like basically 3 Northeast states (90,340 deaths and 28,302 are from New York) ? Is there any talk that the big box stores get to sell all goods and yet until basically recently or not yet many places cant open? Are we saying that Walmart is more responsible than the small craft store or small bookstore?

The Dutch believe that a Mink may have affected a human and all mink farms are getting mandatory testing and that CATS mya be spreading the(CNN) disease

World Bank group is warning that 60 million people (100 countries) could be pushed into extreme poverty (less than 2 US dollars a day)
So link an article. That no one has talked about it, is due to a lack of someone bringing it up. If you think we are somehow blind to the fact that New York got blasted by this, you are wrong. It is finally quieting down in that state, while the outbreak continues to move West and South. That is just a matter of course for a viral outbreak. To say nothing of policies or politics. They explode in large packed in communities, and through human movement spread out from there.

Yeah. There were a bunch of idiot spring breakers. Not all of them young college students. They were able to go to their typical party locations because nothing was done to prevent that. Too much money at stake.

Hard to talk about mom/pop places vs Walmarts and targets, at least on EnWorld. It is politically charged, and if you have been reading along, you can see that is not acceptable as a topic here.

I am willing to talk about it. Present us a topic, one that preferably won't get us kicked out of thread.
 




Which is one of the things many are upset about when China did it,
There are a few key differences here, though. I'm not defending China, I think they caused a ton of problems and probably could've stopped the disease in its tracks before this pandemic became a problem for other countries, but these are different circumstances. We know how to beat this disease, but the government officials are trying to get us to restart the economy while not telling the truth about how bad the disease is.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
There are likely a lot of unreported deaths.

In New Jersey, there were about 5,200 excess deaths in the month ending April 11, according to a New York Times analysis, but less than 2,200 reported coronavirus deaths, leaving an unexplained gap of 3,000.

150% more deaths than reported is a huge discrepancy.

 

Yes, at nearly any pandemic we've looked back at in past decades, the amount of deaths from it were significantly higher than our initial estimates.

This will be true for Covid-19. A lot of people who die are never tested for Covid-19 because we don't normally waste tests on dead people, and if they're old and near to dying anyway, there's not much of a point to test them. (It is beneficial to do so if we want to track the disease, but in a lot of cases, it's just not worth it.)
 

ad_hoc

Hero
Yes, at nearly any pandemic we've looked back at in past decades, the amount of deaths from it were significantly higher than our initial estimates.

This will be true for Covid-19. A lot of people who die are never tested for Covid-19 because we don't normally waste tests on dead people, and if they're old and near to dying anyway, there's not much of a point to test them. (It is beneficial to do so if we want to track the disease, but in a lot of cases, it's just not worth it.)
I wonder if that will be true of Canada.

The death toll here is quite high at 6000 deaths vs 80 000 confirmed cases.

Canada has fallen behind in testing so that could be a cause. Though 80% of all deaths have been in long term care homes so I think those are being accounted for properly, which according to that article is likely a big source of neglected deaths.
 


Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
There are a few key differences here, though. I'm not defending China, I think they caused a ton of problems and probably could've stopped the disease in its tracks before this pandemic became a problem for other countries, but these are different circumstances. We know how to beat this disease, but the government officials are trying to get us to restart the economy while not telling the truth about how bad the disease is.
Respectfully, I disagree.

Lying to entice your citizens that it is safe to go about their daily business is not significantly different than telling other countries that the disease outbreak is not as bad as it actually is. They are two faces on the same die. The political and economic motives are the same.

And arguably, the states’ actions are worse: China lied at the very beginning of the outbreak, operating with very little knowledge about how the disease works. Since then, we’ve accumulated data from months worth of research by hundreds of scientists around the world. That means the people who made the decisions to mislead the public did so with much more knowledge of the risks they were enticing people to assume. It’s Mayor Vaughn of Amity Island on a bigger scale.
 

And arguably, the states’ actions are worse
That is the exact point I was trying to make. They know how bad it is, know how to fix it for the time being, and are still forcing people to work and possibly risk their health and lives.
China knew they had a disease, and should've done more to stop it, but they didn't have much information, and should not have done what they did. We have a ton more research and information that people are choosing to hide or ignore. China's choices were bad, selfish, and destructive with limited information. Certain states's actions are bad, selfish, destructive, and arguably evil with more information and plans on how to properly open up.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
That is the exact point I was trying to make. They know how bad it is, know how to fix it for the time being, and are still forcing people to work and possibly risk their health and lives.
China knew they had a disease, and should've done more to stop it, but they didn't have much information, and should not have done what they did. We have a ton more research and information that people are choosing to hide or ignore. China's choices were bad, selfish, and destructive with limited information. Certain states's actions are bad, selfish, destructive, and arguably evil with more information and plans on how to properly open up.
Problem is they kinda have to open up soon anyway.
 



You may have that luxury, but other people do not. They have to balance multiple competing priorities and do the best they can at it.
No, the government should and can give everyone that luxury. More stimulus checks, increasing taxes on the uber-rich to pay for food for everyone, negating rent and taxes on those that can't afford it.

They government isn't doing the best they can to keep the american people safe.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
No, the government should and can give everyone that luxury. More stimulus checks, increasing taxes on the uber-rich to pay for food for everyone, negating rent and taxes on those that can't afford it.

They government isn't doing the best they can to keep the american people safe.
It's called reality.

We have a well run country and lockdown lasted 7 weeks roughly.

We couldn't have kept it up much longer. A few weeks perhaps.

By June I expect most places reopening to some extent regardless.

We ran out of a few basics. Very light compared to other parts of the world. And we've "defeated" Covid.

In hindsight assuming a perfect response full lockdown mid February, with something like what we did.

But no one was aware in mid February to that extent.
 

It's called reality.
Maybe the reality of your country, but in America, we both have the means of prolonging the lockdown, but also the need to do so. We will have many more cases once we fully open up. America didn't even fully lockdown, doesn't still have sufficient testing, and did not properly respond to the pandemic. We can't half-ass the pandemic response, and then say, "It'll be hard to stay locked down, even if it will save lives, but I really like money, so we're opening up."
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Maybe the reality of your country, but in America, we both have the means of prolonging the lockdown, but also the need to do so. We will have many more cases once we fully open up. America didn't even fully lockdown, doesn't still have sufficient testing, and did not properly respond to the pandemic. We can't half-ass the pandemic response, and then say, "It'll be hard to stay locked down, even if it will save lives, but I really like money, so we're opening up."
It's not about money even though those in power are driving their decisions about it.

At the most basic level food still has to be produced and essentials have to be shipped.

Ideally everyone grabs 60000 calories and stays at home for a month.

There's also an element of classism at play. Why should we suffer while the middle class and better hides?

Most jobs can't be done from home. Cabin fever is a thing.
 

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