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D&D and the rising pandemic

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I don't know how you inform the misinformed. How do you convince a stubborn person they're wrong?
As Danny has noted - how you manage this starts with you recognizing that the issue you have to deal with is not "misinformed". It is not "stubborn". The issue is more, "has a different belief system". You are engaging in bringing a person to choose to change their fundamental beliefs, the axioms upon which the assumptions of their lives are based, and their decisions made. That is a tall order.
 

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Zardnaar

Legend
Do a search for “rabbi converts Neo-Nazi”, or “black man converts klansmen”. You’ll find several stories.

The details differ, but one common denominator is that in each case, it took time and a willingness to talk with- not shout at- someone who might ge willing to kill you.

It‘s not a path that works all the time. It’s not a skill or mindset that everyone has. Even those who DO have that in them may not be able to muster the strength to exercise it every time- all humans have limits.
This. You can't tell them they're wrong or lecture them.

Takes 1-3 years if immersion in NZ culture to convert an American to a kiwi.

Otherwise it's more a hands on thing. A lot of people want acceptence or someone to hang out with.

We had a gun toting AR-15 young fella from Alabama crying at his good bye party here. Kiwis accepted him and put up with some of his dumber comments when he got off the plane. Had a Maori girlfriend lol. He wasn't racist though just more Freedom!!!

He noticed when he was off his face on acid and pot and a cop (no gun) helped him out and wished him a good night at 3am in town.

NZ cops a lot more casual I suppose. 4:20 protesters have had smoke ups in the police station 0 arrests.

Hands on personal effort and/or remove them from their environment. Had a mate once grew up rough. He would stay the weekend and go home 6 weeks later.

Posting online and posing on Twitter complete waste of time.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
IDK. I think any line of communication you can keep open is good.

One of the conversion stories involved the Rabbi fielding phone calls from a single Neo-Nazi tormentor for months. Somehow, he maintained his calm, and kept talking.

It was ages before they eventually met face to face.

I can’t help but think if those events were moved to sometime in the last few days, the harassment might have included hateful messages via Facebook or other social media. And I‘d like to think the Rabbi’s calm engagement would still prove as powerful via the Internet as it was over the phone.
 

Hussar

Legend
Well, my daughter heads back to school tomorrow. Fingers crossed. There hasn't been a case in my ken (think province, but, really about the size of a county) for a couple of weeks which makes me feel good. I know my uni students are going to keep doing online classes until mid July. Sigh. Oh, I guess I should mention that this is the beginning of the school year here in Japan, not the end.

Really, for Japan, the timing was kind of fortunate. They closed schools a few week early, but, all the exames and other nonsense was already done. Now they're just starting a bit late and losing some holidays. Not too bad that way.

Keeping my fingers crossed.
 

ad_hoc

Hero
I think not tolerating certain behaviours is the best course of action.

If people behave horribly don't be friends with them.

If people don't put up with their behaviour then they need to either change or continue being alone.

You can't force people to change.

The best thing to do instead is to support their victims. Use your energy on supporting the vulnerable people in your community instead.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I think not tolerating certain behaviours is the best course of action.
So, on EN World, if we tell you that a behavior isn't tolerated, that means a few rather specific things can happen - you can get warning points, be removed from a thread, or banned from the site for some period of time.

More broadly, though, it is not clear what "not tolerating certain behaviors" means. "Not tolerate" is not a specific course of action.
 


ad_hoc

Hero
So, on EN World, if we tell you that a behavior isn't tolerated, that means a few rather specific things can happen - you can get warning points, be removed from a thread, or banned from the site for some period of time.

More broadly, though, it is not clear what "not tolerating certain behaviors" means. "Not tolerate" is not a specific course of action.
My life isn't a message board.

If someone is being harmful I tell them to stop. If they don't then they're out of my life.

I expect the same from my friends.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
If someone is being harmful I tell them to stop. If they don't then they're out of my life.
Are we talking about the same things? Because I thought we were talking about people who are stubbornly rejecting the reality of the situation. So they are not social distancing, refusing to wear masks, and such.

It it all well and good if you sweep such people from your social media circles, and not having them in your life*. I am all for folks curating who they have in their lives. But, for all that removal... they are still out there exhaling on other people. This stubbornness is making them a public health risk, and they are actively making others into health risks.

"You may go about what you were doing without my interference!" is not taking a great stand against a bad behavior, is it? "Stop! Or... I won't even so much as tell you to stop again!" doesn't seem terribly intolerant.




I dunno about you, but the only person *physically in my life right now is my wife. So, we are talking about... unfriending them on Facebook and such?
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Let me say that my father (MD) had a discussion with our houseguest about some of her decision-making proclamations that were scaring my mother. I was not privy to what was said.

Personally, if she had followed through on some of what she said she was going to, I’d have advocated shipping her off to one of her kids’ homes, ASAP.

I’ve known her for decades and she’s like family, but it would have been an easy vote for me. If your need for dining in a restaurant* or being first in line at the hairdresser’s outweighs the concerns your hosts have about contagion, you need to find somewhere else to be.


* few people like restaurant dining as much as my Mom, and she won’t even join me in the car on those nights we’ve done takeout.
 

IDK. I think any line of communication you can keep open is good.
I both agree and disagree with this, depending on the level of discussion you are talking about.

If you want to convince an individual of something, any line of communication you can keep open is good. If you want to convince a group of something, keeping open lines of communication can serve to legitimize arguments that should be dismissed outright.

For example, consider people claiming that COVID19 is caused by 5G cell phone towers. It's so stupid it's beyond any reasonable argument. But, if you talk about it in a public medium, you're still propagating the information. If you compare it to legitimate discussions or theories about COVID, you actually lend credibility to what is a patently ridiculous idea. And by allowing more people to hear about it you give more people a chance to believe it in. It's a dangerous double edged sword.
 

tomBitonti

Explorer
As Danny has noted - how you manage this starts with you recognizing that the issue you have to deal with is not "misinformed". It is not "stubborn". The issue is more, "has a different belief system". You are engaging in bringing a person to choose to change their fundamental beliefs, the axioms upon which the assumptions of their lives are based, and their decisions made. That is a tall order.
This PodCast has a section which addresses this point:


It's one of their shorter, mid-week segments, so a quick listen.

Be safe, be well,
Tom Bitonti
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member


Fox has warned its viewers not to take hydroxychloroquine like Trump:
It is really a bad idea. It can seriously mess up your heart.
 


Theo R Cwithin

I cast "Baconstorm!"
Statistical Shenanigans in Georgia:
[...snip...]
The article
How does anyone think they can get away with something like that? It'd be more honest to just not release the data under some bogus claim of "state secrets" or something nonsensical like that.

It's stunning the lengths some offices are going to to keep people in the dark.
.
 

If people really want to be stupid let them.

It's like smoking pot and shooting up on heroin. Not a great idea but people still do it.
The difference between this and heroin and pot is that hydroxichloroquine isn't a drug that makes you high. It doesn't benefit you in basically any way unless you have a disease that it helps for. It does hurt themselves and others, though, as people with Lupus and other diseases that this medicine is used for can't get it as easily as they should. (There is the point of it working as a placebo, possibly, but in that case, just take a sugar pill that won't make your heart explode.)
 

Zardnaar

Legend
The difference between this and heroin and pot is that hydroxichloroquine isn't a drug that makes you high. It doesn't benefit you in basically any way unless you have a disease that it helps for. It does hurt themselves and others, though, as people with Lupus and other diseases that this medicine is used for can't get it as easily as they should. (There is the point of it working as a placebo, possibly, but in that case, just take a sugar pill that won't make your heart explode.)
If you're stupid enough to do it though.....

Anyone who follows that idea probably likes orange Cheetos. Less fans if orange Cheetos in November is good right?

It's the prime example of Darwin Awards in action.
 

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