D&D Insider: Losing your toys

[catsclaw227]

DDI has more missing features than actual features. So much so that it means charging the fanbase just to view an R&D article about how gnomes were handled in 4e.

I am having a hard time understanding what you have used as a basis of this statement. When I subscribed to DDI, it was clear that I was getting Dungeon/Dragon, Compendium, Character Builder and the Bonus Tools. These have all delivered above and beyond my expectations.

What is this list missing features that weren't in the DDI that I knowingly subscribed to?

They're not even providing access to stuff just to maintain and generate interest for non-subscribers, and that's shabby. The major feature of a subscription-based service shouldn't be previews of material that the customer will ultimately wind up paying for at some point in the future.

Judging by a thread here on EnWorld, an overwhelming majority of DDI subscribers stated that they are very satisfied or better with their service.

How are you deriving the statement that the previews of material a major feature? Is it based upon experience? Is it based upon discussions in threads? Is it based upon statistical evidence?

The proof is in the page count of articles and the usability of the tools provided by a DDI subscriber account. There is a great deal of evidence contrary to your position.

If someone isn't a DDI subscriber, are they really qualified to claim if it has value or not? Of course, some will say yes, but their claims are dubious at best.

 

[Felon]

If someone isn't a DDI subscriber, are they really qualified to claim if it has value or not? Of course, some will say yes, but their claims are dubious at best.

Y'know, I really wish I could remember which critical thinking fallacy this is. It's the same fallacy that argues that a priest has no business counseling married couples because he's never been married himself. Likewsie, people don't need to purchase a product before they can evaluate whether or not it has value. People don't need to join a group in order to know what it means to be a member.

Judging by a thread here on EnWorld, an overwhelming majority of DDI subscribers stated that they are very satisfied or better with their service.

Which is reflective of...precious little, let's be honest. A forum invariably attracts a certain crowd, and in ENWorld the crowd is gered towards full-blown 4e adopters. I'm constantly alienated from threads not just because I don't have any interest in DDI, but because I'm constantly corrected when quoting from the PHB or DMG because of the copious amounts of errata and revisions to the core rules which I haven't memorized. Go to a Paizo forum and you may see in their thread that a lot of folks don't like DDI--and again, that reflects little other than the fact that like thinking people get together.

And that's where I have to kick myself, because I didn't remind myself of that before I thought to post. This is clearly a thread for folks who have long-standing DDI subscriptions, so I shouldn't be surprised at all of the defensive and unreceptive responses. So, forgive the interruption and return to enjoying your DDI-member-exclusive thread.

 

[Maggan]

Y

Which is reflective of...precious little, let's be honest. A forum invariably attracts a certain crowd, and in ENWorld the crowd is gered towards full-blown 4e adopters.

Judging from other polls here, the split is about 35% D&D4e, 35% D&D3e and 30% other games played. So I think that branding EN World as a breeding ground for full-blown 4e adopters is a bit over the top.

/M

 

[Asmor]

A forum invariably attracts a certain crowd, and in ENWorld the crowd is gered towards full-blown 4e adopters. I'm constantly alienated from threads not just because I don't have any interest in DDI, but because I'm constantly corrected when quoting from the PHB or DMG because of the copious amounts of errata and revisions to the core rules which I haven't memorized. Go to a Paizo forum and you may see in their thread that a lot of folks don't like DDI--and again, that reflects little other than the fact that like thinking people get together.

Paizo is like the flagbearer for 3.5. In particular, Pathfinder attracts those 3.5 lovers who were disenfranchised by the 4e switch. Of course people there wouldn't be on board for the DDI. I doubt you'd find many DDI supporters on the White Wolf forums, either.

The mentioned poll was intended for current and former DDI subscribers to rate their satisfaction with their subscriptions. If it didn't skew heavily torwards satisfaction, there would be a big problem. Generally, people know what they're getting into when they subscribe, and wouldn't have subscribed in the first place if they didn't like WotC's terms (as you have not).

 

[catsclaw227]

Y'know, I really wish I could remember which critical thinking fallacy this is. It's the same fallacy that argues that a priest has no business counseling married couples because he's never been married himself. Likewsie, people don't need to purchase a product before they can evaluate whether or not it has value. People don't need to join a group in order to know what it means to be a member.

The priest analogy is not a fair one. The DDI is a fixed and measurable collection of product items. To reasonably judge their worthiness, one must have been able to see and or read them, otherwise, the knowledge is second hand at best. A priest is educated and trained to counsel couples during seminary school and continuing education and that training is geared towards a goal that is aligned with the beliefs of the priest's order.

If I've never driven nor even seen a certain brand/model of car or never used a type of vacuum, I wouldn't be qualified to say that it stinks or isn't of value. I would have to rely on the second hand reviews of others, and here on EnWorld, the subscribers have had overwhelmingly good things to say.

Which is reflective of...precious little, let's be honest. A forum invariably attracts a certain crowd, and in ENWorld the crowd is gered towards full-blown 4e adopters. I'm constantly alienated from threads not just because I don't have any interest in DDI, but because I'm constantly corrected when quoting from the PHB or DMG because of the copious amounts of errata and revisions to the core rules which I haven't memorized. Go to a Paizo forum and you may see in their thread that a lot of folks don't like DDI--and again, that reflects little other than the fact that like thinking people get together.

Andor and Maggan addressed this quite well.

And that's where I have to kick myself, because I didn't remind myself of that before I thought to post. This is clearly a thread for folks who have long-standing DDI subscriptions, so I shouldn't be surprised at all of the defensive and unreceptive responses. So, forgive the interruption and return to enjoying your DDI-member-exclusive thread.

Here's the interesting thing. You were quick to address the subjective parts of my post, but the direct questions you were asked were avoided.

I'll ask again:

DDI has more missing features than actual features. So much so that it means charging the fanbase just to view an R&D article about how gnomes were handled in 4e.

What is this list missing features that weren't in the DDI that I knowingly subscribed to?

The major feature of a subscription-based service shouldn't be previews of material that the customer will ultimately wind up paying for at some point in the future.

How are you deriving the statement that the previews of material a major feature? Is it based upon experience? Is it based upon discussions in threads? Is it based upon statistical evidence?

 

[IanArgent]

I'm not bothered by the need to have an active subscription to re-install the CB, because it's an offline client to the Compendium, essentially. It isn't standalone software in the sense that MS Office is, for example. The software itself (as the demo) is free as in beer. The datasets are not. Wizards has chosen to make the datasets available on a subscription basis - not unusual in my mind. In addition, they have chosen to allow you to continue access to your cached data after you have allowed your subscription to lapse.

 

[Tetsubo]

If I pay money for something I want it actually be *mine*.

Which is why the Kindle is such a failure in my mind. As is the DDI.

I don't want to 'rent' something that I may well use years or even decades after a gaming system has been abandoned by its creators.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

There's no reason to lose the info from the Insider. Sure, its a lot of work, but you can copy and paste what's there.

Thats why I still have access to the Swodmage class info w/o having to be a subscriber. And no, I haven't yet purchased the RRPG or paid one red cent for a DDI subscription. I got it before the pay service went live.

 

[Dannager]

If I pay money for something I want it actually be *mine*.

Which is why the Kindle is such a failure in my mind. As is the DDI.

I don't want to 'rent' something that I may well use years or even decades after a gaming system has been abandoned by its creators.

Everything is yours. The Character Builder you have on your computer is yours. All the magazine PDFs you download are yours. Every stat block you copy from the Compendium is yours. You will never lose those, unless you do the digital equivalent of burning your books by deleting the files. Your Character Builder will not be downgraded. Your magazines will not magically disappear.

The only case you could make for this is that the bonus tools (the encounter and monster builders) will be disabled should you quit. Given that they're almost universally identified as the least valuable parts of the D&DI subscription, that doesn't really seem like a strong case to be making.

 

[catsclaw227]

If I pay money for something I want it actually be *mine*.

Which is why the Kindle is such a failure in my mind. As is the DDI.

I don't want to 'rent' something that I may well use years or even decades after a gaming system has been abandoned by its creators.

Do you rent or own your place or residence? Do you own or lease your car? (or did you take out a loan for it?) In these cases, you don't own the thing you pay money for, but it is still yours to use.

And the Kindle II is just so sweet, how can it be such a failure?? The dang thing can store about 1500 titles on it! I don't think I could read that many in 20 years, and in that time, they will be selling the Kindle IX with audible-holo-type.

Anyway, my point is that we rent stuff all the time in our lives and this is such a reasonably priced item that it's not really worth getting worked up about.

And, as others have said, you're just "renting" the data. Oh, and the correct term is "subscribing".