D&D General D&D without Resource Management

[Vaalingrade]

I normally agree, but I really like slot based systems that are simple. In my version of D&D that I run, I give inventory slots equal to str + int. Strength for carrying it, Intelligence for how well you pack. Then heavy things or armor are 2 slots, light things can share a slot, ammunition isn't counted because who cares about counting ammunition (no offense to those that do).

Aside from the blessed non-counting of ammo and a different calculation, that's how PF2 does it and... well it's still encumbrance both in name and in terms of what it is to my having fun.

 

[Lanefan]

Well of course you use the most powerful spells, because of the way D&D spellcasting works.

Like, why would you cast three magic missiles if you can cast one fireball with greater effect? If a higher level spell ends a combat more quickly, then it's conserving more resources to use it than to use weaker spells.

That's where the 1e idea of fireballs being potentially risky comes in useful: in close quarters or where it's uncertain how big the area is, you'll cast those magic missiles instead of a fireball every time (well, maybe except the first time, on which one hopes the lesson is learned!).

 

[kunadam]

I admit I hate the strategic resource management part of D&D. We never ever do 6-8 encounters a day. 1-2 most likely.
My grievance with the system is the meta thinking on the behalf of the players: they want to foresee when to use their resources. (we only play level 1-5, so resources are always few) Sometimes they only begin to use their abilities when their hp is getting dangerously low. And I see the casters mostly reverting to firebolt and not using all the nice spells in the book, because they save up (we never played memorization, not even in AD&D2e times).
Tactical resource management is fun. You have 1 action, you can cast one spell or attack, or rush to aid you ally. That is a meaningful choice (for me). There might be per encounter abilities, and timing the use of them can be fun. Do you start nova and clear the mobs before the boss, or do you preserve them for the boss?

It seems there are two camps here. For one D&D is a wargame and the resource management is integral part of the experience. For others, it is mostly a joint storytelling where you can track when did the character last relieve himself, but it might not be much fun.

From a design perspective it would be easier to start with a system with not much long-term resource management, and add subsystems for those who like them (or when it is needed).

 

[Lanefan]

I like spell points we've done some games with them but making everyone spontaneous casters is a huge buff to clerics and wizards.

We made Clerics all be spontaneous casters decades ago in our 1e-like games and it's worked out OK. For my current campaign I've gone the same route with Mage types; it too works OK (and means some spells get cast that would otherwise never see the light of day!) but I need to tweak down the number of slots they get by the time they reach higher levels.

And the martials still hold their own just fine.

 

[Lanefan]

D&D from the beginning quickly had options (usually magical) for getting around mundane resource management in a lot of ways.

Continual light stones obviate torches and lanterns. 5e light cantrip and darkvision do too.

Yes, light rocks remove the need for torches and lanterns...until your light rocks get dispelled, at which point it's "Did anybody bring a torch?"

Bags of Holding address a lot of encumbrance limitations.

5e makes these far too commonly available. In 1e they were pretty rare - I don't remember seeing any as treasure to be found in published adventures, for example - and that rarity makes them cool when you do find one.

5e good berry provides a days rations for the party and heals 10 hp as a 1st level spell.

5e rope trick for safe short rest camping. Earlier editions lasted a night's rest to recover spells.

Rope Trick's limitation in earlier editions (where parties were generally bigger) was the number of people it would hold. Leo's Hut in 5e solves the shelter problem to the point of overkill.

5e money is not a big deal after you get plate mail.

A serious design-level bug.

 

[Shardstone]

Aside from the blessed non-counting of ammo and a different calculation, that's how PF2 does it and... well it's still encumbrance both in name and in terms of what it is to my having fun.

Well, can't account for personal taste. I don't use the BULK method that PF2 uses, but I see what you're saying. Tbh though, I think that Blades in the Dark probably provides the best alternative. If you tie flashbacks to a resource, like Inspiration or something, you could make it work very well for D&D.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Tbh though, I think that Blades in the Dark probably provides the best alternative. If you tie flashbacks to a resource, like Inspiration or something, you could make it work very well for D&D.

I will say I like Blades' loadout system. I don't even see it as an encumbrance system as it's so narratively driven.

 

[Shardstone]

I think 5e could really use more formalised structure in many areas of skill use, instead of just letting GM to figure it out somehow. I'm sure many GMs handle it just fine, but when we don't have default structure for these things we also cannot have mechanics that attach to those structures.

For example if we had something like Adventures in Middle-Earth journey mechanics for making a perilous trek, then rangers could have features that provided bonuses in relevant areas.

5E should adopt FoRKing from Burning Wheel IMO. Let skills be used to support one another, and then create either feats, weapons, or class abilities that trigger when you FoRK. Would be very fun IMO.

For reference, FoRK stands for Fields of Releated Knowledge. Because Burning Wheel has so many skills that won't ever show up, you can take one skill and use it to support another for extra dice. Cap the number of FoRKs you can do at once in 5E to two.

FoR a skill you're proficient with into a skill you're not gets you 1/2 (rounded down) PB bonus. If you have Expertise, you instead add your entire PB.

FoRK a skill you're proficient in into another skill with proficiency and turn it into Expertise.

If you FoRK an additional skill, add that skill's base ability score modifier (minimum of 1). So if you make a Performance check and ForK Intimidaton and Athletics into it, representing how you're being aggressive, flamboyant, and showing off your strength, you gain Expertise (for Intimidation) and then +Str mod (for Athletics).

Allow tools to FoRK into each other as well, but not for an ability mod. This makes tool profs a lot more interesting.

Limitations are up to the DM. You can't always use Athletics to enhance your Performance. Or make it so you can only FoRK the additional proficiency if you spend Inspiration to do so.

This is a simple and elegant way to make 5E skills and tools more useful and opens up a lot of potential mechanics in the game, especially for things like exploration or the social pillar.

 

[Voadam]

Yes, light rocks remove the need for torches and lanterns...until your light rocks get dispelled, at which point it's "Did anybody bring a torch?"

Sure, if you only have one. In 1e it was a 3rd level spell with no material component that any 5th level or higher PC cleric could cast. Carrying around five backups in case of targeted dispelling and or continual darkness was generally easy for any party above fourth level that thought to do so.

 

[Minigiant]

Personally I don't think the slot system is bad.

I think the problem D&D has is that it forces itself to base itself around having resources for a long dungeon crawl and make the challenge managing that instead of design around a short dungeon and make the optional choice to extend or shorten with items or player options.

It forces people to manage 8 items over 12 obstacles instead of managing 4 items over 6 obstacles.

And for what? D&D hasnt been a great enough dungeon crawler for decades to the point that it must strap itself to heavy resources management. Late 2e, 3e, 3.5e, 4e, 4E, 5e and the incoming 5e24e.5e aren't great resource management dungeon games. Decent ones but not great ones