D20 Modern - What do we know/want?

[Ranger REG]

Honestly, it would have been nice if they had already added the VP/WP health system (from the Star Wars RPG) into the SRD.



But it will be included in d20 Modern and into the SRD this Fall (that's 5 more months to go). * sighs *

As for armor, the Star Wars Revised Core Rulebook (as well as the Shadow Chasers mini-game found in Dungeon/Polyhedron #91) have already provided a sneak peek of d20 Modern armor rules. Armor will NOT provide defense bonus and therefore will NOT replace your Class Defense Bonus, but it will cap Dex bonus to defense. Armor will have damage reduction (DR) value. It will definitely protect your WP (represents your actual physical health determined by your Con score and Toughness feats).

 

[CWD]

Heh... If armor doesn't protect against vitality damage you will get some wierd results. I tried playtesting it in a Dragonstar game. Here's the lowdown.

If someone attacks you with a weak weapon that doesn't do a lot of damage, you don't want them to hit you until you are OUT of Vitality points, so that your armor can kick in and you can ignore the damage.

If someone attacks you with a powerful weapon that does a lot of damage, you want them to hit you BEFORE you run out of Vitality points, so that it doesn't cause you to lose wound points (and possibly knock you out).

I had players asking me if they could intentionally NOT dodge an attack so their armor could soak it up instead of burning up Vitality points which they wanted to save for use against more dangerous attacks. Huh? It gave me visions of the Shadowrun dodge pool.

I hope they come up with a better system than that. In Spycraft, armor affects all incoming damage, not just WP damage.

 

[Ranger REG]

It may be weird but Vitality Points never did represent a character's actual health. It just represents one's fitness, luck, energy to absorb the fatal blows and turn it into glancing blow or near-miss, "rolling with the punch", etc.

(Or in the case of Star Wars, energy to activate the Force powers).

But we'll see.

 

[Ron]

Hit points are an abstraction of the character capacity of sustain damages plus his/her ability to avoid them. I don't think it is a particulary well thought system, but at least I'm used to it. The wound/vitality points system makes this separation explicity. This bothers me a lot. I'm not sure of what exactly happens with a character when he looses vitality. Unlike the hit point system where the abstraction kind of hide this problem, WP/VP makes this problem explicity.

I'm not very excited with d20 modern. As I said, I'm not a fan of the WP/VP system and I don't think that classes are a good idea in a modern game. I would be more satisfied if WotC follow the CoCd20 rules more closely in their upcomming game. I'm sure they will not, but having CoC already, do we really need d20 modern?

 

[Corinth]

I don't like the VP/WP scheme. Just lower the Massive Damage threshold instead. It gets the job done without adding any rules to the game. I want classes and levels as well; they work, they always have worked and they always will. Do not mess with what works.

 

[Luddite]

I think I must be sort of biased , because I base my impression of Vitalty/Wound points on the Spycraft usage and not the WotC (used in Shadow Chasers and I assume Star Wars).

The big difference is in the application of DR. In Spycraft is applies to all damage (vitality and wounds). In WotC it only applies to wounds. I would agree that the WotC version is not good. In Spycraft, if your Damage reduction reduces the damge to 0, then you still take 2 points of Subdual Damage (which is not the same as vitality damage, in short it accumulates. When you have as much subdual damage as your current vitailiy you are staggered. If greater then current Vitality and Wound then you go unconscious)

All attacks go to vitality first, then wounds, except in the case of a critical. (both systems)

Healing: I am not sure how WotC does healing but here is Spycraft. Vitality is regained at 1 point per level per hour of rest (aka light activity). (Subdual is loss at the same rate, you heal both at the same time). Wounds is 1 point per day of rest.

Personally, I would rull that sleeping characters recover all their vitality in 8 hours. But for the most part, if a day passes between encounnters you will have all your vitality back. There are a few drugs that heal only wound points. But is less effective if more then one is used in one day.

Maybe since I am using the Spycraft system, it makes more scense.

-The Luddite

 

[Ranger REG]

Thanks. You've just explained Star Wars health system, too.

But I do have one criticism for Spycraft: like the original Star Wars, armor still replace Defense Bonus. Star Wars revised rule no long have that for armor, just simply DR, max Dex bonus, ACP, movement reduction, etc., but no armor bonus.

 

[Luddite]

Yes, armour in Spycraft does modify Defense bonus. Actualy the armour defence bonus replaces your class bonus. Something I don't personaly like. I do like the idea that medium and heavy armours do decrease you bonus, since you are a slightly easier target to hit.

I would like to see a Class Base denfense score much the same as you have a Class Base attack score. Armour then modifies that densese score (usaly negitively) and provides DR for both Wound and Vitaility.

The Spycraft systems heavily discourages amrour worn by any PC execpt those who have Soldier Class. Sure it is the superspy genre that agents don't ware amrour, only the bad guys. If I wanted to run a more cyberpunk game, then amour's defence should stack with class defences, (usaly negitively)

-The Luddite

 

[Limper]

What we want is ACTUAL compatability to the rest of the d20 games and genres. THAT was the original attraction of the concept.

I'm a bit peaved at them having created 4 seperate d20 games whose mechanics are not 100% compatable. But I'll purchase it anyway..... I wish I could shake this habit.

 

[Luddite]

By 4 different games do you mean:

DnD
Wheel of Time
Star Wars
Call of Cthulhu

I don't think I would realy consider them incompatable. Not like in the old days of TSR. (Gamma World, Top Secret, Star Frountiers looked nothing alike). The have different options but for the most part they are all the same.

In fact, I almost think that we have one base system and currently three sets of optional rules (by WotC) that can be integrated in to a system. d20 is becoming the Legos of the the RPG world. There is enough similarity between all games that a player of one needs little time to figure out the different mechanics of another. Now it takes a little work to realy mix and match, but it can be done.

One thing we are seeing is sort of a "formal codification" of many house rules. And with little effort I could create the game I want to play, yet have everyone already know the rules.

I have so much to steal from, and it is all leagal. I could even publish.

So I don't think they are imcopatable...just different options on the same theame.

-The Luddite