Damage type of Sneak Attack/Warlock's Curse/Hunter's Quarry

[CapnZapp]

Okay, none of those replies were completely clear to me.

So let's take it one more time, now with the errata in mind, which says "resistance doesn’t reduce damage unless the target has resistance to each type of damage from the attack, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies." by the way.



If I somehow make an attack consisting of 1d8+4 fire damage, 1d6 untyped damage, and 2 points of radiant damage, and rolled a seven and a one on the dice, that would simply become 7+4+1+2=14 points of radiant fire damage, subject to whatever resistances and vulnerabilities the target has?

Yes? No?

If the foe has Resist 10 Radiant then all 14 points of damage goes through, because its radiant fire, and the foe doesn't have fire resistance. If the foe has Resist 10 Radiant 5 Fire then 9 points of damage gets through.

Yes? No?

Please, when you answer, either include my example or make up your own. Just a theoretical discussion quickly becomes impregnable to the casual reader.

Zapp

PS. And no, you can't combine fire and untyped damage into damage that bypasses any specific resistances. Untyped damage is damage without a type, not a type called "untyped". Fire plus untyped equals fire.

Yes, this is another way of saying that untyped damage "adds to" the type(s) of damage.

And yes, once damage got a type, it can't be made into untyped damage again. The only way damage can stay untyped (and thus bypass "non-general" resistances, i.e. everything except insubstantial etc) is if all of it is untyped all the way through.

 

[Garboshnik]

The Gloves of Eldritch Admixture in the Adventurer's Vault grant the following ability:

" When you deal extra damage as a result of your Warlock's Curse, you can choose that damage to be acid, cold, or fire (or leave it untyped)."

 

[Wepwawet]

If I somehow make an attack consisting of 1d8+4 fire damage, 1d6 untyped damage, and 2 points of radiant damage, and rolled a seven and a one on the dice, that would simply become 7+4+1+2=14 points of radiant fire damage, subject to whatever resistances and vulnerabilities the target has?

Yes? No?

No.
If someone makes that attack, it will deal 7+4 fire damage, 1 untyped damage and 2 radiant damage. If they're all separated like that, then they come from different powers/effects, so they must be accounted for separately. As far as I know there is no power that can do that, usually it happens when you combine different effects.
Should it deal radiant fire damage, the power would have both keywords and it would state in the description that it does "1d8+4 + 1d6 + 2 radiant fire damage to the target"

If the foe has Resist 10 Radiant then all 14 points of damage goes through, because its radiant fire, and the foe doesn't have fire resistance. If the foe has Resist 10 Radiant 5 Fire then 9 points of damage gets through.

Yes? No?

Well, no.
If the foe has resist 10 radiant, only the 2 points of that damage are resisted, so he takes 11 fire + 1 untyped.
If it has resist 10 radiant & resist 5 fire then he will take 6 fire damage + 1 untyped damage.
I think

PS. And no, you can't combine fire and untyped damage into damage that bypasses any specific resistances. Untyped damage is damage without a type, not a type called "untyped". Fire plus untyped equals fire.

Exactly, untyped damage is damage without a type.
I believe fire plus untyped equals fire plus untyped, apart like that, especially if the damage comes from different powers. Well, I was basing all this in that premise.

 

[Sunglare]

Exactly, untyped damage is damage without a type. I believe fire plus untyped equals fire plus untyped, apart like that, especially if the damage comes from different powers. Well, I was basing all this in that premise.

except Sneak attack, Hunters Quarry, and Warlocks Curse is not damage from another power. It's extra damage from class abilities. It is not listed as "Untyped damage"

Sneak Attack:

Once per round, when you have combat advantage
against an enemy and hit that enemy with an attack that uses a crossbow, a light blade, or a​

sling, the attack deals extra damage.

Hunter's Quarry:

Once per round, you deal extra damage to your​

quarry.

Warlocks Curse:

If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal​

extra damage.

The Rogue one leads the most credit to saying it's all the same damage.
it actually mentions the attack deals extra damage. Which means you'll be using any keywords the attack has.

[Damage Types:​

​

​

​

​

In addition to normal damage,
such as the damage a weapon or a monster’s claws
deal, powers and other effects can deal specific types
of damage. For example, a hell hound’s breath deals
fire damage, a scorpion’s sting deals poison damage,
a mind flayer’s telepathic blast deals psychic damage,
and a wraith’s touch deals necrotic damage.
When a power deals a specific type of damage, the
power description specifies the type before the word
“damage.” A fireball deals 3d6 + Intelligence modifier
fire damage, for example. All the damage it deals
is fire damage. If a power doesn’t specify a damage​

type, the damage has no type.]

If you're just using a basic attack and have no keyworkds to change the damage type then yeah you're doing no type damage but SA/HQ/WC is extra damage added to the attack your doing. So if your rogue is sneak attacking with a fire weapon then all the damage is fire. It's not (W=fire, SA=untyped).

 

[Black Knight Irios]

For ease of use it is best to assume that SA/HQ/WC deal the same type of damage the attack it is used with deals.

But WotC could have made this whole discussion moot by adding after:

"[...]the attack deals extra damage of the the power's type it is used with."

 

[black_lance]

This question came up in my game session today, with a cleric/ranger casting Lance of Faith on his HQ target, which was vulnerable to radiant damage. Given that the power conjures nothing but a beam of holy radiant light, striking the target whom the ranger is focusing his attention on, it seems logical and appropriate that the 'extra damage' be 'extra radiant damage'. It's also a heck of lot easier to calculate.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

The Gloves of Eldritch Admixture in the Adventurer's Vault grant the following ability:

" When you deal extra damage as a result of your Warlock's Curse, you can choose that damage to be acid, cold, or fire (or leave it untyped)."

This seems pretty conclusive to me. If the Warlock's Curse damage wasn't counted separately, I don't see how these gloves would work. And since the wording on Hunter's Quarry and Sneak Attack isn't any different, they should work the same way.

This question came up in my game session today, with a cleric/ranger casting Lance of Faith on his HQ target, which was vulnerable to radiant damage. Given that the power conjures nothing but a beam of holy radiant light, striking the target whom the ranger is focusing his attention on, it seems logical and appropriate that the 'extra damage' be 'extra radiant damage'. It's also a heck of lot easier to calculate.

Yeah, it makes logical sense, but 4E is about keeping the rules balanced and logical, not the fluff. I'd also have interpreted it that way, but the existance of Eldritch Admixture forces me to conclude otherwise.

You just have to be a bit more creative in your fluff descriptions. For instance, rather than just blast your target with light, you're using your hunting skills to herd them onto rough terrain where they stumble and gash up their leg. That does radiant damage from the original attack and 1d6 extra untyped damage from the fall.

 

[Sunglare]

This seems pretty conclusive to me. If the Warlock's Curse damage wasn't counted separately, I don't see how these gloves would work. And since the wording on Hunter's Quarry and Sneak Attack isn't any different, they should work the same way.

It's not counted seperatly. If a warlock does damage without his WC then his damage type is limted to the keywords listed in his power. If a warlock has this item and hits a target then he is also including his WC damage then he can choose for that damage to be Acid, cold or fire, or leave it as normal if he so chooses.

The item doesn't say the extra damage itself is acid, fire, or cold but that if a warlock damages a creature that includes his warlocks curse then that damage can be acid, fire, or cold. There's a differance