D&D 5E (2014) Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[MGibster]

That would support stagnation rather than promoting change wouldn't it?
Just keep it the same and wait for the players to age.

Kids who were born in 2002 aren't the same as the ones who were born in 1982. They grew up with different forms of media, different fantasy influences, and the world as a whole has changed. For D&D to remain relevant in an everchanging market it's had to change with it. i.e. D&D in 1994 wasn't the same as it was in 1974 and in 2044 it probably won't be the same game it was in 2024. Even some of us old folks have changed. While I loved and purchased a ton of AD&D 2nd edition products, if that were still the flagship game I sure as shootin' wouldn't be playing it.

I say again some of the posts here are dismissive and treat players as disposable due to their age

I think disposable is the wrong way to look at it. I don't expect D&D to cater to my particular preferences and I'm perfectly fine with that. I imagine they might think of my demographic, but I suspect they won't lose a lot of sleep over agonizing about making sure they keep me interested. Even though I've got tons of disposable income and 5th edition is my favorite edition, I've bought very few books over the last 11 years. I bought more 2nd edition products from 1989-1994 than I have 5th edition books.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Are you talking about the game, or are you talking about movies?
Because I think the mode of the story matters.

Secondly I would suggest that the dramatic success of Marvel in the modern era is because it abandoned its hardline nostalgia and created new stories within those tales. Star Wars biggest successes have been with shows that abandoned their former loyalists.

D.C.'s worst movies are from those who tried to be "loyal to the material."

Modernization in genre is eternal. Those franchises that do it best are the ones dominating. Those adhering to static, online addicts' demands are the ones that fail

You say that the mode of the story matters, and then proceed to tell me how it doesn't.

 

[Micah Sweet]

lol sure.

Anyway, we know the major touch points on why 5e took off, it has nothing to do with an appeal by Wizards to a 'new audience'.

Yeah I'm sorry, but 5.0 was not about catering to a new audience, and that's the game that took off in popularity. They started fiddling with it after the boom, not before.

 

[Micah Sweet]

How compassionate and caring of you, this methodology applies to every customer regardless of age you know?

I believe @Paul Farquhar is looking at the question from the soulless corporation point of view.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I guess most of players really only want the setting to be unlocked in DMGuild.

If the adventure "Freedom" was too linear then we could start from zero with other adventure, an adaptation of the videogame Dark Sun: Shatered Lands. Here we shouldn't worry about the continuity or metaplot.

I can understand the risk of Dark Sun to become a "saga of Gor" with psionic powers. (like the sword and sorcery version of 50 shadows of gray) but that risk happens with the rest of settings. Let's remember "the Legend of Vox Machina" is not a cartoon for children.

And we know if Hasbro could it would buy the IPs by White Wolf (WoD, CoD and others) when these are for mature audiences.

Other option could be a new "plane" from "Magic: the Gathering" style "Gamma World" or "Horizon Zero Dawn" working like a spiritual succesor. Maybe there is a "planar bridge" between this world and the Athaspace but this was "conquered" by the cult of Tharizdum or hidden by Vecna's agents.

* The setting "Midnight: Legacy of Darkness" by Edge is really dark but I don't remember controversies.

Unlocking things on DM Guild is literally all I want from WotC. That's it.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Of the first 10 non-dice images in the 2024 PHB there's 1 that's 'twee.' there are nine that aren't, including a couple that are brutal.
Chapter two has 8 images that aren't icons. Zero are twee.
Chapter three has 14 icons and 29 other images. There are four of five twee bards and a single twee druid. No twee are anywhere else.

This so called "pivot to twee" isn't backed up by a survey of the art in the official books.

There may be a perception, because people tend to latch onto things they don't like in a way that makes it so a mind can't forget it. There's no real, actual pivot.

What we do know is that Stranger Things, Critical Role (and other actual plays), Ghosts, Magic tie-ins, the D&D movie helped 5e surge. None of these things were embraced by unchanging traditionalists. All welcomed new players to the table in a way that this hobby has traditionally struggled with.

I think you have a very different definition of twee, let's just say that.

 

[Hussar]

I think you have a very different definition of twee, let's just say that.

I'd say his difinition is pretty solid to be honest. I'd pretty much agree that there is only one image of the first ten non-dice images in the PHB that could even remotely be called "twee".

But, hey, we're not about evidence or actual facts anymore. Let's be brutally honest. This is about "feelings".

 

[MGibster]

But, hey, we're not about evidence or actual facts anymore. Let's be brutally honest. This is about "feelings".

It's almost always about feelings.

 

[king of the ceaders]

I'd say his difinition is pretty solid to be honest. I'd pretty much agree that there is only one image of the first ten non-dice images in the PHB that could even remotely be called "twee".

But, hey, we're not about evidence or actual facts anymore. Let's be brutally honest. This is about "feelings".

I'd say it's about feelings and consensus since "twee" doesn't have a concrete description based on both its use in this discussion and it definition.

According to Merriam-Webster

"twee

adjective​

ˈtwē

Synonyms of twee
chiefly British
: affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint"


"Twee" is by definition an opinion. But hey who cares about differing opinions

 

[ECMO3]

Even if cannibalism,.murder and slavery aren't written about, there's nothing stopping a PC from engaging in them. I've played more than one adventure with characters who just said "hey let's eat these goblins instead of buying rations" .

I don't think playing that way is a problem at all, do what you want at your table. Heck the game has had hard core racists and homophobes that have played and enjoyed it. In the Dark Sun game I am playing right now my PC is a Human who eats Halflings (mostly because they captured and tried to eat her). In the next game I generated a character (Halfling Bard), whos backstory is she was a slave to a sorcerer king and ate his children and escaped.

The problem is the company putting it in a published official product.