Voted yes. I find very few things problematic per se. Are there stuff i don't want in my games and don't want to engegage? Sure. Do i want products that have that kind of content to exist? Yes, there are others that will like that stuff.
In the end, it's about brand image. WoTC D&D is PG 13. Dark Sun is 18+. Those things don't mesh well. Can they sanitize DS to make it PG13? Sure. Will it have same appeal? Nope. IMHO, i would rather see good third party DS product that keeps it 18+, than mediocre sanitized WotC PG 13 DS.
Is any of what is actually printed in game books☆ worse than the kinds of stuff you can expect to find in the best selling monster f'r section of the book store where you find plots rooted in SA kidnapping mind control mind-rape & worse, or is this refering to a thirdhand description of a third hand description of something rarely actually read by critics being pretty bad? Seems like the stuff you mention wouldn't even rise to the level of being unusual in that romantasy genre if authors suddenly started writing darksun romantasy books.
You didn't offer much of substance so I'll pull some quotes from that first box set book
Mul
A mul (pronounced: mul) is an incredibly tough
crossbreed of a human and dwarf. They retain the
height and cunning of their human parent, plus the
durability and raw strength of their dwarven heri-
tage. Muls are usually the products of the slave
pits—owners recognize the muls' assets as gladia-
tors and laborers, and so order the births of as many
muls as can be managed within the ranks of their
slaves. Muls are born sterile—they cannot perpetu-
ate their kind.
A full-grown mul stands 6 to 6V2 feet tall and
weighs 240-300 pounds. They are fair skinned, some-
times tending toward a copperish coloration. Their
dwarven ancestry gives them a well-muscled frame
and an incredible constitution—mul laborers can
perform heavy work for days at a time without stop-
ping. Muls have stern facial features. They are un-
mistakably human in appearance, though their ears
are swept back and slightly pointed. Most muls,
whether male or female, have no hair or beard.
Born as they are to lives of slave labor, with the
taskmaster's whip taking tKe place of parents and
family, muls are given to a gruff personality and vio-
lent reactions. Understandably, many never seek
friends or companionship but live out their lives in
servitude, driven by hatred and spite. Most, How-
ever, learn wKo to trust in the slave pits and who not
to, gaining favor and reputation among the other
slaves.
Many slave muls Kave either escaped or otherwise
won tKeir freedom and now live independent lives all
over AtKas. Of these, a large percentage have bar-
tered tKeir combat prowess, making their way as sol-
diers or guards. A few otKhrs, given to more
cerebral pursuits, have turned to priestly devotions
or tKe mental disciplines of psionics.
A player character mul may become a cleric,
druid, figKter, gladiator, psionicist, or thief. When
created, tKe player must decide if his mul character
will be considered a demihuman or a Kuman char-
acter. As a Kuman, the mul character can have un-
limited advancement in any class and become a
dual-classed character later in his career. As a demi-
Kuman, a mul can become a multi-classed character
in accordance witK the multi-classed combinations
table in tKe next chapter. Once the decision is made,
tKe mul cKaracter will forever be considered either a
Kuman or demihuman in all ways.
A mul cKaracter adds two to his initial Strength
score and one to Kis initial Constitution score.
WKile often cunning and bright, a mul's training
rarely encourages the mental disciplines, so mul
cKaracters subtract one from their initial Intelligence
scores. The rigors of their upbringing in bondage
makes them sullen and difficult to befriend—mul
It is the halflings that you must watch out for.
They consider anything that enters their territory—
including other intelligent races—fair game. Once
they become aware of your presence, they will silent-
ly stalk you through the forest, awaiting just the
proper time to spring ambush. If possible, they'll
take you alive and present you as a gift to their king.
Should you be taken alive, this is not a fate you
should hope for. Some halfling kings are so savage
that they prefer to eat humans and demihumans
presented to them alive. Others are more civilized,
and will at least have the decency to kill and cook
their meals first.
Because it also has quite a bit of detail about past ages & the cleansing wars I decided to check'95 thri kreen of athas & was surprised to find this as the first entry for mul
Dwarves, Muls, and Humans
These non-kreen races are generally viewed favorably by thri-
kreen, and are the most easily accepted as people, as packmates,
and as clutchmates.
Dwarves are consistent, and as long as their focus is compati-
ble with the goals of the thri-kreen, they make good clutchmates,
despite being very slow.
Muls are strong warriors with great stamina; if anyone could
be as formidable a hunter, it would be a mul. Muls are generally
the only beings who can join a pack composed only of thri-
kreen. While rare, it is not unknown for an escaped mul slave to
join a thri-kreen pack and live the life of the hunter.
Humans are also quite acceptable, being adaptable enough
to understand tokchak and tikchak. In fact, there are tribes of
humans who live as hunters, accepting their own brand of
tikchak as a way of life. While thri-kreen get along well with
human hunters on an individual basis, pack and tribe some-
times come into conflict. A wise and well-led tribe of human
hunters soon learns where the thri-kreen hunt, and what they
hunt, then chooses a different area, or at least different prey. In
contrast, human city dwellers are nearly incomprehensible, with
their concern for money, lack of understanding of tikchak, and
their preconceptions about thri-kreen. Even so, many city
dwelling humans can eventually adapt enough to learn thri-
kreen ways.
On a whim I also checked '94 dse2 blackspine mountains because it actually has some mul, mul king, a slave council & so on. My quick skimming of blackspine mountains didn't notice anything particularly noteworthy even if it was found in the YA section of the book store & this is feeling a bit like a directionless snipe hunt.
☆ That's an important distinction because there is also 4(?) fiction novels for darksun & rajaat is actually in at least one
Is any of what is actually printed in game books☆ worse than the kinds of stuff you can expect to find in the best selling monster f'r section of the book store where you find plots rooted in SA kidnapping mind control mind-rape & worse, or is this refering to a thirdhand description of a third hand description of something rarely actually read by critics being pretty bad? Seems like the stuff you mention wouldn't even rise to the level of being unusual in that romantasy genre if authors suddenly started writing darksun romantasy books.
You didn't offer much of substance so I'll pull some quotes from that first box set book
Mul
A mul (pronounced: mul) is an incredibly tough
crossbreed of a human and dwarf. They retain the
height and cunning of their human parent, plus the
durability and raw strength of their dwarven heri-
tage. Muls are usually the products of the slave
pits—owners recognize the muls' assets as gladia-
tors and laborers, and so order the births of as many
muls as can be managed within the ranks of their
slaves. Muls are born sterile—they cannot perpetu-
ate their kind.
A full-grown mul stands 6 to 6V2 feet tall and
weighs 240-300 pounds. They are fair skinned, some-
times tending toward a copperish coloration. Their
dwarven ancestry gives them a well-muscled frame
and an incredible constitution—mul laborers can
perform heavy work for days at a time without stop-
ping. Muls have stern facial features. They are un-
mistakably human in appearance, though their ears
are swept back and slightly pointed. Most muls,
whether male or female, have no hair or beard.
Born as they are to lives of slave labor, with the
taskmaster's whip taking tKe place of parents and
family, muls are given to a gruff personality and vio-
lent reactions. Understandably, many never seek
friends or companionship but live out their lives in
servitude, driven by hatred and spite. Most, How-
ever, learn wKo to trust in the slave pits and who not
to, gaining favor and reputation among the other
slaves.
Many slave muls Kave either escaped or otherwise
won tKeir freedom and now live independent lives all
over AtKas. Of these, a large percentage have bar-
tered tKeir combat prowess, making their way as sol-
diers or guards. A few otKhrs, given to more
cerebral pursuits, have turned to priestly devotions
or tKe mental disciplines of psionics.
A player character mul may become a cleric,
druid, figKter, gladiator, psionicist, or thief. When
created, tKe player must decide if his mul character
will be considered a demihuman or a Kuman char-
acter. As a Kuman, the mul character can have un-
limited advancement in any class and become a
dual-classed character later in his career. As a demi-
Kuman, a mul can become a multi-classed character
in accordance witK the multi-classed combinations
table in tKe next chapter. Once the decision is made,
tKe mul cKaracter will forever be considered either a
Kuman or demihuman in all ways.
A mul cKaracter adds two to his initial Strength
score and one to Kis initial Constitution score.
WKile often cunning and bright, a mul's training
rarely encourages the mental disciplines, so mul
cKaracters subtract one from their initial Intelligence
scores. The rigors of their upbringing in bondage
makes them sullen and difficult to befriend—mul
It is the halflings that you must watch out for.
They consider anything that enters their territory—
including other intelligent races—fair game. Once
they become aware of your presence, they will silent-
ly stalk you through the forest, awaiting just the
proper time to spring ambush. If possible, they'll
take you alive and present you as a gift to their king.
Should you be taken alive, this is not a fate you
should hope for. Some halfling kings are so savage
that they prefer to eat humans and demihumans
presented to them alive. Others are more civilized,
and will at least have the decency to kill and cook
their meals first.
Because it also has quite a bit of detail about past ages & the cleansing wars I decided to check'95 thri kreen of athas & was surprised to find this as the first entry for mul
Dwarves, Muls, and Humans
These non-kreen races are generally viewed favorably by thri-
kreen, and are the most easily accepted as people, as packmates,
and as clutchmates.
Dwarves are consistent, and as long as their focus is compati-
ble with the goals of the thri-kreen, they make good clutchmates,
despite being very slow.
Muls are strong warriors with great stamina; if anyone could
be as formidable a hunter, it would be a mul. Muls are generally
the only beings who can join a pack composed only of thri-
kreen. While rare, it is not unknown for an escaped mul slave to
join a thri-kreen pack and live the life of the hunter.
Humans are also quite acceptable, being adaptable enough
to understand tokchak and tikchak. In fact, there are tribes of
humans who live as hunters, accepting their own brand of
tikchak as a way of life. While thri-kreen get along well with
human hunters on an individual basis, pack and tribe some-
times come into conflict. A wise and well-led tribe of human
hunters soon learns where the thri-kreen hunt, and what they
hunt, then chooses a different area, or at least different prey. In
contrast, human city dwellers are nearly incomprehensible, with
their concern for money, lack of understanding of tikchak, and
their preconceptions about thri-kreen. Even so, many city
dwelling humans can eventually adapt enough to learn thri-
kreen ways.
On a whim I also checked '94 dse2 blackspine mountains because it actually has some mul, mul king, a slave council & so on. My quick skimming of blackspine mountains didn't notice anything particularly noteworthy even if it was found in the YA section of the book store & this is feeling a bit like a directionless snipe hunt.
☆ That's an important distinction because there is also 4(?) fiction novels for darksun & rajaat is actually in at least one
Well as I said I would focus on the 1991 set if I was updating it.
Bit more focus on tbe environment, past is a mystery, anti slavery, the rulers are tyrants. Rajaat and cleansing wars are not n early DS product. You don't retcon them away you just don't mention it a'la 1991. Alot of the metaplot stuff was terrible anyway no loss.
Tone down worsr of what's left over. After BG3 and Game of Thrones I don't think you can claim there's no market for more mature content.
And with the D&D movie flopping and killing the movie production kiddie friendly doesn't seem to sell.
Yes, I read what you said in 958 where you opened with "Alot of the problem DS came in later product".
That's the problem and what I was directly and explicitly asking you to backup because you seem to be relying on Internet wisdom summaries made with second and third hand descriptions of what was in "later product" rather than what was actually printed and actually read in those game books .
Which later product or products was that? What specific sections in actually published game books?
There is a other option to introduce an "Athasian spin-off". One would be a new dark dormain like Kalidnay but I suggest something like the layer "Androlynne" from Fiendish Codex I.
I imagine something like "Galek Sandstrider's guide of the region of Tyr" focused mainly to monsters, some PC species and some pages about the city-states and the sorcerer-kings or "Ktandeo's memories of the shatered lands" focused into crunch (subclasses, spells, magic items, feats..) for generic post-apocaliptic settings.
Other idea is a portal toward an alternate Athas with two layers, one like the blue age and the other like the green age. The ruler of he "blue Athas" don't like the no-halflings and he sent hordes of biopunk monsters against intruders, but then a planar invasion started and now the no-halfling are tolerated like allies against the planar invaders (Obyrith or like this).
Or we could create an alternate timeline where the cleasing war couldn't start because before there was a planar invasion of infernal dragons and their minions.
What if in the other side of Athas an alien spaceship crashed but they could survive and create a new civilitation using psitek instead no-magic technology?
* Slavery and antropophagy are wrong, are we going to cancell the gnolls?
