Darkvision through a telescope

[Moon-Lancer]

While I don't agree that darkvision is truly black/white only (i.e. I think it includes greyscale) you are wrong on this one.

I recommend you check out the Renaissance movie. It's true black&white but you can still see everything accurately, especially if things are in motion.

You forget, In order to make such an effect possible, you need to deliberately add contours so shape is not lost. Its not a natural effect. In other words darkvision would need some type of edge finding. darkvision would be like detecting shapes and adding an outline. The artest making shots like this carefully considers what the background is in relation to the figure.

Although i do thank you for the link. It looks very awesome, and i'm going to watch it. I love stuff like this.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

3.0 DMG had a fine example of a mindflayer in normal and darkvision. All contrast was accomplished with the changing from black to white.

do you have a link? i don't have 3.0 dmg. I remember seeing it once, but i forget what it really looks like. I'm sort of in the dark here.

 

[Jhulae]

do you have a link? i don't have 3.0 dmg. I remember seeing it once, but i forget what it really looks like. I'm sort of in the dark here.

It's of a mindflayer that's been poorly photoshopped so it's white and the background is black.

SKR stated, in effect, that he disliked that picture immensely because that's not how darkvision was supposed to be portrayed.

 

[Mistwell]

Well, you can do whatever you want in your own games, of course. But I think an interpretation of the rules which results in my character not being able to see the sun or the moon is utterly ludicrous.

If seeing the sun or the moon is an encounter, it's probably ludicrous.

The rules for using spot to see something are for when an encounter starts, not when role playing aspects of your game come into play.

 

[Branduil]

If seeing the sun or the moon is an encounter, it's probably ludicrous.

The rules for using spot to see something are for when an encounter starts, not when role playing aspects of your game come into play.

So basically you separate "spot" from "actually being able to see things"? Sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how that's either desirable or logical.

 

[Mistwell]

So basically you separate "spot" from "actually being able to see things"? Sorry but I'm having a hard time seeing how that's either desirable or logical.

Now that's funny...since YOU guys are the ones advocating that spot is not to be used to see distant things regardless of whether or not those things are an encounter, unless that thing is hiding. I'm only saying it's used for distant things that are hiding OR which are an encounter. Take a position already...is spot used to see things that are not hiding, or not?

I separate "spot check to determine when an encounter starts" from "ability to see distant things that are not a challenge themselves".

The rules do this in more than one place. Overland movement to get from one city to another is not the same as overland movement to get from your starting square to the opponents square after initiative starts, for example.

Is it really that illogical that the rules treat things that happen during initiative different from things that happen outside of initiative? To me, it's logical. If it's part of the challenge, it requires a check. If it is not part of a challenge, it does not require a check. What's so weird about that?

 

[Slaved]

Now that's funny...since YOU guys are the ones advocating that spot is not to be used to see distant things regardless of whether or not those things are an encounter, unless that thing is hiding. I'm only saying it's used for distant things that are hiding OR which are an encounter. Take a position already...is spot used to see things that are not hiding, or not?

This seems very illogical.

First it starts off with saying that others are advocating not using spot to see distant things.

Next you say that you are only talking about using spot for hiding things or encounters.

After that you make up a question that does not look connected to any point that you were trying to contend with.

Along with that it looks like you still have not actually quoted the sources you are supposedly using and you seem to have changed your stance that was given at the beginning without a post about it, unless I missed a post somewhere.

In total it looks very disjointed.

From earlier

Spot skill is often used with an opposed hide check, but not always (and that is explicit in the rule). It's used for all sorts of things, from "Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see" to "Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins". As far as game rules go, if you ask your DM "Can I see any details on the side of that barn that is a mile away" your DM is likely going to ask you to make a spot check versus a fixed DC adjusted for distance.

I am still waiting to see where in the rules it says what these set difficulty classes are for seeing objects that are far away but are not hiding nor hidden. I have looked at the spot skill and at page 22 in the dungeon masters guide, neither say what you have implied that they said.


Without the very important link you are trying to make, namely that sight has a fixed range, there is no reason to believe that darkvision gains any good benefit from a telescope. We know that darkvision goes a maximum preset specific distance before it simply does not work, regular sight does not have such a limitation. Although even if it did that still would not prove that darkvision range would be doubled through a telescope. The logic countering that stance has been shown a few times.

 

[Jhulae]

I'd probably leave a game where I'm walking toward a city that suddenly disappears because there's a guard I'm going to 'encounter' and suddenly my character can't see beyond 300'....

I wouldn't leave a game where my character is underground in total darkness but can't see anything beyond the specified range of her darkvision.

I see lots of quotes of the rules, but I also see you missing lots of the nuances of the words.

"Sometimes things aren't intentionally hiding but are difficult to see". If something is *not* intentionally hiding and is *not* difficult to see, then no spot checks are even needed, whether it's an encounter or not.

The fact that you *may* use a spot check, listen check, or spotting distances to determine beginning encounter range also means you *may not* choose to use all or any of those things.

Regardless, (and to stay on topic) Darkvision rules state that there is a "Specified" range for a creature's darkvision (as given per the creature's stat block). That means that the range given is the maximum distance that creature can see with it. I don't see how that can be interpreted any other way.

 

[ElectricDragon]

How do you start an encounter?

 

[werk]

"Sometimes things aren't intentionally hiding but are difficult to see". If something is *not* intentionally hiding and is *not* difficult to see, then no spot checks are even needed, whether it's an encounter or not.

Everything is difficult to see, or rather, has a difficulty to see, it's just the severity of difficulty that changes. It's like: there is no cold, only varying degrees of heat.

If something has a spot difficulty of -30...it's pretty hard to not see, but it is still difficult in the purest sense of the term.

The fact that you *may* use a spot check, listen check, or spotting distances to determine beginning encounter range also means you *may not* choose to use all or any of those things.

You need to back this up somehow, because I disagree. The only way I see you can start without using those things is to be surprised constantly...both sides...