D&D 5E Deal Breakers - Or woah, that is just too much

wedgeski

Adventurer
So from your point of view the Oathbreaker shouldn't exist, thieves shouldn't exist and only by the book hero play is allowed? Where's your creativity? As a dm I find it fun to create a quest for evil pc's. You can play against their evil. Constantly putting them in a position to be overtaken by good makes it fun for myself and the other players. Suicide squad type game play is fun.
Let me save you the trouble of further reductionism or veiled insults: I don't like the kind of gameplay evil PC's get up to, I don't like putting myself in a position of arbitrating it, and I don't allow it. If you think that makes me a lesser DM, I won't lose any sleep over it.
 

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S

Sunseeker

Guest
So from your point of view the Oathbreaker shouldn't exist, thieves shouldn't exist and only by the book hero play is allowed? Where's your creativity? As a dm I find it fun to create a quest for evil pc's. You can play against their evil. Constantly putting them in a position to be overtaken by good makes it fun for myself and the other players. Suicide squad type game play is fun.

I won't answer for [MENTION=16212]wedgeski[/MENTION] but I hold a similar position. I won't DM for evil parties. It's not what I want to do. And lets be clear, when I'm talking about evil parties I'm not talking about scoundrels. There's nothing wrong with a Han Solo. But I won't DM for Darth Vaders and Boba Fetts. I have no desire to assist the players in being murderers, or worse, and yes, I know a few people that given the chance will push the evil envelope to the point that all those terrible things I don't want to include in the game will eventually be there and I'm just not comfortable with that.

Further, I don't want to play against my players. I don't enjoy doing that.

Also: you can have a suicide squad without the players being evil. You just need players to be willing to do things that even adventurers would find insane.
 

dewderino

First Post
Let me save you the trouble of further reductionism or veiled insults: I don't like the kind of gameplay evil PC's get up to, I don't like putting myself in a position of arbitrating it, and I don't allow it. If you think that makes me a lesser DM, I won't lose any sleep over it.
There weren't any insults, but take it however you'd like. I said nothing about you being lesser of a dm. I simply said you're not being very open minded and the fact that you stereotype evil pc's the way you do shows me all I need to know. It's a game of fantasy the idea of good and evil only exists so both ends can be played.
 

Magil

First Post
There weren't any insults, but take it however you'd like. I said nothing about you being lesser of a dm. I simply said you're not being very open minded and the fact that you stereotype evil pc's the way you do shows me all I need to know. It's a game of fantasy the idea of good and evil only exists so both ends can be played.

The DM should be comfortable with the game s/he is running. If s/he isn't, then chances are everyone is going to enjoy the game less. If you feel it is "close-minded" to be uncomfortable with "evil PC antics", that's fine, but personally I find it a very reasonable position.

Not everyone enjoys the same forms of entertainment, and personally I wouldn't immediately dismiss someone who was uncomfortable with everything I enjoy as "close-minded". Seems a little judgmental to me. The important thing is that everyone is up-front and honest about their expectations for the game before they agree to play together.
 

Giant2005

First Post
Let me save you the trouble of further reductionism or veiled insults: I don't like the kind of gameplay evil PC's get up to, I don't like putting myself in a position of arbitrating it, and I don't allow it. If you think that makes me a lesser DM, I won't lose any sleep over it.

I don't like that kind of gameplay either. I have played with theives that seemed to be literal kleptomaniacs and absorbed about half the sessions single-handedly as they went around town robbing everything in sight while the rest of lay in wait, and lots of cannibals too - it is equally annoying to have to spend the required time for your companions to eat everything you kill before continuing your adventure.

It absolutely sucks.

still, I have no aversion to evil characters - my aversion is to douchebag characters. Being evil doesn't necessarily mean that the character is a douchebag. The evil could be entirely internalized and have no consequence in the game beyond roleplaying - he could still be doing good things for evil reasons and the game won't suffer one bit for it. Evil characters aren't the problem.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Just found something in another thread that would make me walk away from the table. DM making mechanical system changes but keeping them secret from the players. I don't mind house rules at all, but we're all playing a game together and it should be the same game.
 

ccs

41st lv DM
Let me save you the trouble of further reductionism or veiled insults: I don't like the kind of gameplay evil PC's get up to, I don't like putting myself in a position of arbitrating it, and I don't allow it. If you think that makes me a lesser DM, I won't lose any sleep over it.

It's the people you've played with that causes this.
I guarantee you could DM for my evil characters. Because my "evil" characters are up to exactly the same things the rest of the party is. It's just their reasoning for doing them that differs. And they might not have any qualms about getting their hands dirty concerning things like goblin babies....

For ex I give you Bob, my 1e NE Deep Gnome;
1) He's "evil" primarily because the rules don't allow me to be a fighter/ASSASSIN who's alignment is anything but evil. It's a rules thing. And the DM won't alter it. So. If it were up to me I'd describe him as Neutral-GREEDY.
He's an assassin not because he accepts $ to kill people as a job, but because that's the skill set that absolutely best fits the character I envision. Before joining the surface dwellers as a guide, he served as a long range recon scout for his clan. (character was brought in as a replacement character after my Paladin died unrecoverably) Deep Gnomes live in the underdark. You don't survive solo in the underdark without mastering some brutal skills. He's got no problem stepping out of the shadows & sticking a pick axe in just the right spot to drop a foe in 1 hit (roll on the assassination % table). Or killing things 1st & then asking questions.
2) He really doesn't care either way about the party. Or for their stated reason for being down here in the underdark. Except the 1/2ling. He likes the 1/2ling. (more importantly his sister likes the 1/2ling). And after two months of adventuring with these surface dwellers he's certain they are STUPID. They're GOING to get killed down here. He'd wash his hands of these fools - but holy crap, the loot being gained is INCREDIBLE! (Deep Gnomes are stated in that edition as being willing to go to considerable risks for gems. Working with this party certainly qualifies:))
The party might be stupid surface dwellers, but they are really effective at killing things the Deep Gnomes wouldn't mind seeing exterminated. And so he plots the best way to avoid a (complete) TPK & haul 50x his own body weight in loot away....
3) Looking at the G/N/E alignment description:
Good doesn't fit.
Neutral is pretty close.
Evil? Well, he really is helping the party murder a city full of Koa-toans (and mindflayers & Derro, &......) for his own gain. Sure, he has no problem working with others - his clan, the party, etc. Nor does he have any real plans/intent of betrayal to any of them. And wiping out these threats is certainly a worthy cause & a boon to all. But really he's doing it to get rich. And he's not willing to die for the party.... So I could see it if you wanted to call him evil.
*like I said though, it's really just a rules thing. To get the Assassin abilities in 1e I had to make him evil. Even though I think Neutral is the better description.

At the end of any given session do you know what my "evil" character has done? Cheerfully murdered & looted Koa-Toans/Derro/Mindflayers, etc - right alongside the GOOD ranger, 2 GOOD clerics, and a mixed lot of other non-evils.
Oh, and every now & then I'll cheat the Ranger at gambling/cards during downtime.
 
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innerdude

Legend
How about the DM who invites an old friend into the group, which then makes it weird and they often digress into telling stories or revisiting things in their youth during game.

Wow, this is . . . so much what happened to my previous group. I had a great group going, and then one of the players invites an "old buddy" into the mix, and it just completely destroyed the group dynamic. It didn't help that the "old buddy" is sort of a weird, lone-wolf type who fancies himself an "epically awesome" GM and will tell you to your face that every RPG made that isn't GURPS outright sucks.


The DM that says it is too much work on him, but if anyone else takes a turn at it (runs a fantasy setting), pretty quickly they push to get back to their campaign.

LOL, same guy, same place. He claims that he'll happily "play anything someone is willing to run," but then in actual play spends the bulk of the time griping that the system isn't GURPS, that the GM is railroading when (s)he won't allow said player to do some outlandish thing, and tests the absolute limits of a system's breakability then points to the fact that something is broken as "proof" that the system is inferior to GURPS.

Within 2-3 sessions, said player begins openly advocating, "Wouldn't you guys all really be rather playing in a GURPS fantasy campaign that I'll run for you? It'll be awesome"---as if the fact that the last nine campaigns this guy ran crashed and burned within half-a-dozen sessions was somehow immaterial to the proposed campaign's awesomeness.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
I would rather have an evil PC than CN douchebag. Still waiting for a well played evil PC. I have run all evil Drow games but generally evil PCs are banned.
 


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