D&D 5E Death PTSD

[randrak]

First and foremost, I like to make death meaningful. When a character dies I want more than "I cast Rez, let's go." which is pretty much what starts to happen by now that my players are level 10.

As such, I already use Matt Mercer's resurrection rules (resurrection is this whole big ritual that can fail). But I also wanted to add something else, like some form of PTSD.

I was thinking that, if the character that dies encounters the one that killed them or is in a similar situation, I'd have them roll a Wisdom saving throw. On a fail, they become frightened of the creature or event that killed them. This would be accompanied by things such as nightmares (each night they have to roll a wis saving throw). With three passes, they are "cured".

What do you guys think? And what should the DC be set to? 15?

 

[Imaculata]

How about just asking the player to play out how his character feels about coming back from the dead?

One of the things I've done in my campaign to make death more meaningful, is that a resurrection earns you a notation in the book of the god of Death. He takes note of anyone that disrupts the balance of life and death. Plus the deceased must also want to return. They cannot be resurrected against their will.

In my campaign there are also consequences to dying at sea. Due to the fact that an evil entity has taken over the realm where dead sailors go, they become lost in the Eternal Depths, and their soul may become food for this evil entity. There is no coming back from that.

My players have visited this realm once, and simply by the way I described what it was like, they were able to role play their characters in a realistic way. They were traumatized, but I did not have to tell them that they were traumatized.

 

[Leatherhead]

You could make it so that death automatically causes the person suffer a serious injury (as per the injury tables in the DMG, or your own tables)

Regenerate is still a level 7 spell, after all. Even when they are able to cast it themselves at level 13, it is still a "once per day" kind of event.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A neat Idea. I would make it a charisma saving throw though.

 

[Hathorym]

I understand wanting some sort of after effect from death, but that should come from the player's imagination rather some arbitrary roll. But adventurer's are hardened. If they were going to suffer from PTSD, it would be more likely to come from battle with aberrations and fiends, rather than a momentary loss of life.

Edit: If only real PTSD could be "cured" so easily, my life would be so much easier. For me D&D is a way for me to cope with PTSD, I wouldn't want to experience it in game as well. Death tends to happen only once. PTSD is your whole life. I hope that you can appreciate my concerns.

 

[jgsugden]

D&D is a game, not a simulation. There are many things that sound like they could be interesting to add to the game, but you really do run the risk bringing up painful triggers for your friends or your friends' families if you incorporate those elements into the game. That is a reason why Concepts like addiction, rape, PTSD, lingering injuries, and other effects that would reduce the capability of a person permanently are not part of the core game. While it is easily possible to add some of these elements to the game, the gamble that you're not going to run afoul of something in the personal life of someone in your game, or someone associated with someone in your game, it's not worth the marginal benefit of including it.

 

[Henry]

Resurrection is one of those things (like gaining five levels in a month of game time) that has to be considered in a metagame context - that is, considered in the light that we're playing a game. Resurrection is a rule, along with any related rules, that need to be discussed with the whole group to get buy-in.

That said, it doesn't sound too harsh, but i would make it lower than 15, because most characters other than clerics or druids are only going to have a +0 to +3 on that roll, meaning they fail most of the time and NEVER get better. Maybe DC 10?

 

[Imaculata]

Psychological traumas are actually part of the Call of Cthulhu rules. But I personally feel such rules do not really fit the spirit of D&D. Of course you are free to give what ever flavor you want to your campaign, but I tend to lean more towards fun heroics, rather than mental traumas.

You also have to ask yourself if more rules make the game better. If your goal is to make the death of a PC matter more, you could also accomplish that through your own storytelling. And there is merit in simply leaving it up to the players themselves to decide whether they want to play out a psychological trauma for their character. If you add rules for it, you force them to do it... and I can see how that could put some players off.

 

[Psikerlord#]

First and foremost, I like to make death meaningful. When a character dies I want more than "I cast Rez, let's go." which is pretty much what starts to happen by now that my players are level 10.

As such, I already use Matt Mercer's resurrection rules (resurrection is this whole big ritual that can fail). But I also wanted to add something else, like some form of PTSD.

I was thinking that, if the character that dies encounters the one that killed them or is in a similar situation, I'd have them roll a Wisdom saving throw. On a fail, they become frightened of the creature or event that killed them. This would be accompanied by things such as nightmares (each night they have to roll a wis saving throw). With three passes, they are "cured".

What do you guys think? And what should the DC be set to? 15?

Hmm you could roll on the Low Fantasy Gaming rpg Injury & Setbacks table (free PDF: https://lowfantasygaming.com/ )

Edit: I prefer to remove raise dead altogether

 

[iserith]

First and foremost, I like to make death meaningful. When a character dies I want more than "I cast Rez, let's go." which is pretty much what starts to happen by now that my players are level 10.

As such, I already use Matt Mercer's resurrection rules (resurrection is this whole big ritual that can fail). But I also wanted to add something else, like some form of PTSD.

I was thinking that, if the character that dies encounters the one that killed them or is in a similar situation, I'd have them roll a Wisdom saving throw. On a fail, they become frightened of the creature or event that killed them. This would be accompanied by things such as nightmares (each night they have to roll a wis saving throw). With three passes, they are "cured".

What do you guys think? And what should the DC be set to? 15?

I don't pretend to know the content and difficulty level of your game, but my guess is that if your game is anything like mine, this rule would come into effect so rarely that it probably isn't worth implementing it. Not because I don't have PCs dying in my games, but rather because the trigger seems unlikely occur. In some cases, I could see it triggering a lot, depending on one's interpretation of "similar situation."

Raise dead and similar spells are really just D&D's answer to iteration time, that is, the time it takes to get a player with a dead character back into play. The party effectively earns a faster iteration time because the player playing the caster has gained the requisite number of levels.

"Meaningful deaths" also means something different to each person, so without knowing what you consider a meaningful death to be, it's hard to say whether this house rule achieves the goal it is designed to achieve.

 

[pukunui]

I tend to ignore the mechanical penalty for the raise dead spells (which I think is what's meant to represent the PTSD you're talking about) and go for a more Game of Thrones style of play, where being raised from the dead causes you to lose a bit of yourself. To this end, I either modify a raised PC's flaws or give them a form of indefinite madness.

 

[Lanliss]

Resurrection is one of those things (like gaining five levels in a month of game time) that has to be considered in a metagame context - that is, considered in the light that we're playing a game. Resurrection is a rule, along with any related rules, that need to be discussed with the whole group to get buy-in.

That said, it doesn't sound too harsh, but i would make it lower than 15, because most characters other than clerics or druids are only going to have a +0 to +3 on that roll, meaning they fail most of the time and NEVER get better. Maybe DC 10?

Well, that actually kind of makes sense. Druids would be deep into the Circle of Life thinking, and Clerics would be less perturbed than most, as they actually have an idea of what they are getting since they go to their god. Some random Fighter won't have any such assurance, and very well might face all sorts of horrible experiences in their afterlife.

Personally, I have a special Death plane, that is a constant blowing blizzard on an endless plane. When someone dies, they go their, and time stretches out. They wander for centuries, on into millennia, before eventually being found by an old man, who offers them a choice. Return to life (reset Death saving throws, but does not cure your wound) or go on into whatever Afterlife they have earned. Those who choose to return get a second chance at being healed, but have a shard of that Plane stuck in their heart for quite a while afterwards (The rest of their life in less long-lived races). Mechanically, this gives them disadvantage on saves against cold, and gives them some sort of quirk (the player makes it up) that relates to needing to be warm in some way. They also take 1d4 damage if they stay away from warmth of some form for too long.

If they die again, they go through the same process all over again, and they gain vulnerability to cold. The Vulnerability then stacks for every time they die, to triple damage from cold, then quadruple. The damage die also goes up for staying away from fire, to a d6/d8, on and on up to a d100. Eventually, an Ice cube will be able to kill them outright. There are ways to remove the Shard, but they are rare and costly. Some Warlocks have sold their soul, taking the shard out of their body, but losing 1 hit die permanently (The mechanical cost of a soul). Clerics can undertake quests for their god to receive a divine cleansing. Wizards can construct potions for it, but those cost more than a kingdom.

While none of my players have died yet in this world, I have a couple of NPCs with Death Quirks like a king who only finds warmth in drink, or a Young Green Dragon(Friendly) Who needs the warmth of another body to avoid the damage from staying away from warmth overnight. I would also allow the players to ignore the quirks if they feel like it.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I tend to ignore the mechanical penalty for the raise dead spells (which I think is what's meant to represent the PTSD you're talking about) and go for a more Game of Thrones style of play, where being raised from the dead causes you to lose a bit of yourself. To this end, I either modify a raised PC's flaws or give them a form of indefinite madness.

Love the idea of imposing madness of some kind

 

[pukunui]

Love the idea of imposing madness of some kind

It's worked out well for me so far. In my Tyranny of Dragons campaign, the Zhent rogue now finds it hard to care about anything (even furthering the goals of his "family", which may come back to bite him), while the dwarf wizard has the "being drunk keeps me sane" flaw. He went on a drinking binge in a Waterdeep and bought himself a random magic item (it turned out to be an elemental gem that he's not sure he wants to use, given the consequences).

In another campaign, I turned one PC's bond of earning glory in battle into an obsession. That was a lot of fun.

 

[MNblockhead]

I also like the madness idea. I would just adapt the madness rules in the DMG to apply to resurrection. The idea being that he resurrection is fraught with risk and the more times you die and your soul brought back, the more likely your mind may break. Depending on how frequent death is in your game, I might, however, let the first time be a freebie.

The guys in Web DM discussed an interesting idea in their recent Youtube video titled "Modrons Inevitables & Cosmic Law" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GrDnECYh_c&t=1239s). While the focus was on Modrons and how you might use them in your campaign, they also discussed bringing "Inevitables" into 5th edition. I never played editions of D&D that had inevitables (at least I don't think they were in 1st edition) but they sound cool. The idea is that if you are resurrected too often you'll be seen as breaking natural law and will attract the attention of these planar being who seek to enforce certain fundamental laws. They hunt down liches and such and if you are resurrected too often, you may attract their attention.

If you don't like their construct, machine-being nature, or don't want to do the work of bringing them to 5e, you could reskin a powerful angel to play the role.

An eerie suggestion they had that I really like for giving death and resurrection some gravitas is that when resurrected, you may glimpse visions of them. Maybe the first time you are resurrected, you have the sense of being watched, that something took notice.

The next time, you see some vague form in the distance watching you, filling you with cold dread.

The third time, you see this terrifying before you, being staring at you. The words "never again" echo in your mind as you come back to life.

A mixture of the madness rules and the use of inevitables could be very interesting. Perhaps a character that has cheated death far too often could be hunted down, but when they are inevitably caught up with, if they are good or lawful, perhaps instead of destruction, they are given a choice: if they kill some lich or necromancer they will be given a reprieve. So long as they are agents of the lawful forces enforcing the laws of life and death, they are allowed to become resurrected, but with ever greater demands being up upon them to balance additional resurrections.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Some possible madness traits upon being rezzed :

1d20 MADNESS TRAIT
1 “Do not be alarmed. The tremors and flashbacks come upon me every nightfall. They will subside by the morning.”
2 “Something sinister is following us. Sometimes I catch a glimpse of it from the corner of my eye.”
3 “Have no fear, my friend. I am the greatest warrior that ever lived. There is no foe we cannot overcome.”
4 “I must close every door I walk through. It keeps the Old One at bay.”
5 “This is no ordinary spider web. It is an ill omen. Five trapped insects struggling to be free, just as we five are trapped here in this forsaken ruin! We must turn back before it is too late.”
6 “My apologies, please forgive my laughter. In recent times my sense of levity has become skewed. I understand this is a very serious situation. Do continue.”
7 “I cannot abide the smell of beastmen any longer! The stink makes me wretch. I must leave this place or cut off my nose.”
8 “I can’t put my finger on it, but ever since [insert event] there has been something very wrong with [insert ally name]. Keep a close eye, sister.”
9 “I grow weary of being exploited and taken advantage of all the time. From now on, I give the orders round here.”
10 “Who is this burly dwarf with the broad axe? I think I would remember her if she were our ally as you claim. What sorcery is this? Who are you, wench!?”
11 “On occasion I lose the power of speech. Sometimes for days. They say I am cursed, or mad. Perhaps I am. But there is a secret in the silence, and I will be the one to uncover it.”
12 “If I draw my sword, one of us must die. Such is the price that the Blood God demands. I dare not disobey.”
13 “It is a curious thing, but the more I lie and exaggerate, the more others respect me.”
14 “The more people I meet, the more I care only for myself.”
15 “I keep my dear friend’s ear with me always. As long as I have it, I know he can still hear me.”
16 “I don’t feel anything anymore. Not since [insert event].”
17 “Can you not see her? The cloaked woman in the shadow of the trees? Is she saying something, I can’t make it out?”
18 “Bloodshed unleashes the demon within me. Keep well clear and loose the nets if I cannot shake the bloodlust once the last of our foes is dead.”
19 “Sometimes I black out and wake up elsewhere, with no memory of how I got there.”
20 “I am whispering because even here they are likely listening. You would be wise to do the same.”

 

[Imaculata]

Personally, I have a special Death plane, that is a constant blowing blizzard on an endless plane. When someone dies, they go there, and time stretches out. They wander for centuries, on into millennia, before eventually being found by an old man, who offers them a choice. Return to life (reset Death saving throws, but does not cure your wound) or go on into whatever Afterlife they have earned. Those who choose to return get a second chance at being healed, but have a shard of that Plane stuck in their heart for quite a while afterwards (The rest of their life in less long-lived races). Mechanically, this gives them disadvantage on saves against cold, and gives them some sort of quirk (the player makes it up) that relates to needing to be warm in some way. They also take 1d4 damage if they stay away from warmth of some form for too long.

In my pirate campaign, if a character dies at sea, they go to the Eternal Depths, which is some what similar to your Death plane. It is a corrupted realm of the dead. A massive underground ocean, shrouded in darkness, with sub zero temperatures, where souls turn to icy statues once they are forgotten. That is, if they are not lost in the sea of souls. The original deity of this aquatic realm has been removed from power, and since then temperatures have dropped, and souls are no longer brought before the god of death. They are stuck in the Eternal Depths, and all the souls have started to pile up over the years. People lose all sense of time in this realm, but it is possible to also visit this realm while you're alive. My players have visited this realm once to save an npc-ally, which made for an exciting quest.

 

[Lanliss]

In my pirate campaign, if a character dies at sea, they go to the Eternal Depths, which is some what similar to your Death plane. It is a corrupted realm of the dead. A massive underground ocean, shrouded in darkness, with sub zero temperatures, where souls turn to icy statues once they are forgotten. That is, if they are not lost in the sea of souls. The original deity of this aquatic realm has been removed from power, and since then temperatures have dropped, and souls are no longer brought before the god of death. They are stuck in the Eternal Depths, and all the souls have started to pile up over the years. People lose all sense of time in this realm, but it is possible to also visit this realm while you're alive. My players have visited this realm once to save an npc-ally, which made for an exciting quest.

Sounds fun. Technically, a living being could visit my Death plane as well, but they wouldn't be living for very long. It leeches the magic out of souls (In my world people operate under the assumption that the "Soul" Is a spark of magic, as a tie in with a few other forces of balance). The greatest minds in the Primary College are generally working on theories about how a soul can enter the plane, and return only slightly damaged, but living people go there and come back as husks. What they don't know is that there is a creature there that hunts and feeds on the warmth, and the massive blizzard is a prison designed to blind and weaken it. Dead souls, luckily, have no warmth to them (Magic is a crisp 60 degrees normally), but living bodies hold plenty of heat. I plan for the beast to come into play one day, if they poke the wrong wasp nests. I don't have stats or anything, but it is tentacled and dangerous, as all Old Ones should be.

 

[Imaculata]

What they don't know is that there is a creature there that hunts and feeds on the warmth, and the massive blizzard is a prison designed to blind and weaken it. Dead souls, luckily, have no warmth to them (Magic is a crisp 60 degrees normally), but living bodies hold plenty of heat. I plan for the beast to come into play one day, if they poke the wrong wasp nests. I don't have stats or anything, but it is tentacled and dangerous, as all Old Ones should be.

Ah, I see more parallels. In my campaign the Eternal Depths have been taken over by an evil entity called Hydra, and he is very much like a Lovecraftian Old One as well. He is a huge tentacled beast that hides within the clouds that cover the cavernous ceiling of the Depths, and occasionally it will extend one of it's many feeding tubes, to suck up the souls from the sea below. It feeds on souls, and is the reason the Depths are so cold.

Fortunately Hydra cannot physically enter the mortal realm (yet), because it is ruled by the gods. But Hydra's cultists create a terrifying magical cloud called the Harrowing, which is basically a rift obscured by darkness, that allows Hydra to extend its influence into the mortal world.

 

[Lanliss]

Ah, I see more parallels. In my campaign the Eternal Depths have been taken over by an evil entity called Hydra, and he is very much like a Lovecraftian Old One as well. He is a huge tentacled beast that hides within the clouds that cover the cavernous ceiling of the Depths, and occasionally it will extend one of it's many feeding tubes, to suck up the souls from the sea below. It feeds on souls, and is the reason the Depths are so cold.

Fortunately Hydra cannot physically enter the mortal realm (yet), because it is ruled by the gods. But Hydra's cultists create a terrifying magical cloud called the Harrowing, which is basically a rift obscured by darkness, that allows Hydra to extend its influence into the mortal world.

Amazing coincidences. Are Death-Planes-as-Prisons a common trope I didn't know of?