D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[Stalker0]

I mean, a lot of optimizers already didn't take it, so I don't think it was automatic.

Yeah, the reason a lot of people took spiritual weapon is not because its amazing, its because the rest of the 2nd level spells are just really bad. I mean what else are you going to take if you want a combat spell?

 

[Greg Benage]

Yeah, the reason a lot of people took spiritual weapon is not because its amazing, its because the rest of the 2nd level spells are just really bad. I mean what else are you going to take if you want a combat spell?

There are some good 2nd level spells, but they're often situational (e.g. silence) or good in a boring way (e.g. aid). I would agree that there is even more design space now in 5.5e for 2nd-level combat spells that are broadly useful and aren't bad.

 

[Pauln6]

Spiritual weapon sees regular use in my campaign where there are lots of enemies spread out but both my players view it as rather dull and lacklustre. They like Toll the Dead more, which I find thematically problematic. Of course, an extra 1d8 radiant damage to spell attacks does beef it up slightly but I think it would die a death in my game as concentration.

I think the 10' for Guidance feels counter intuitive. I like resistance but it feels must have. I'd want it for my Tome Warlock.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think this Guidance and Resistance are bad.

They feel like if you play a cleric you gotta give up 2 of your cantrips or your party is going to be mad at you.

May as well just reduce the number of cantrips clerics can have by 2 and give everyone in their party +d4 on all skill tests and saving throws 'cause why not. Ugh.

I dont like either of these spells as cantrips and I think they should either be removed or seriously reworked.

Any divine cantrip caster can take it, as can magic initiate:divine & some races like the new aardling. Given the ranger being a cantrip caster it's reasonable to assume decent odds paladins will have the same & even better reason to choose one like guidance or resistance over attack cantrips. In the case of aardlings & other races the same pressure will apply if they are not a wisdom charisma or int based class.

Plus the divine spell list has 6 cantrips & by level ten the cleric can prepare 5 cantrips. It's not really a lower level concern either since levels one & four have 3 & 4 cantrips prepared,

 

[Lojaan]

Any divine cantrip caster can take it, as can magic initiate:divine & some races like the new aardling. Given the ranger being a cantrip caster it's reasonable to assume decent odds paladins will have the same & even better reason to choose one like guidance or resistance over attack cantrips. In the case of aardlings & other races the same pressure will apply if they are not a wisdom charisma or int based class.

Plus the divine spell list has 6 cantrips & by level ten the cleric can prepare 5 cantrips. It's not really a lower level concern either since levels one & four have 3 & 4 cantrips prepared,

That kinda makes it even worse. May as well cut them from the game and just give everyone +d4 on everything whatever.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

There are some good 2nd level spells, but they're often situational (e.g. silence) or good in a boring way (e.g. aid). I would agree that there is even more design space now in 5.5e for 2nd-level combat spells that are broadly useful and aren't bad.

It is some kind of tradition, that the relative good damage spells are 1st, 3rd and 6th level. In between it is more utility, defense and buffs.

 

[Reynard]

Constantly muttering prayers while holding a rosary is absolutely not suspect. Having a religious friend besides you isn't either. In both these cases we don't mind in real life. The only thing that might give it is if your religious friend is knotted to you by a 10' rope.

Wait, you wouldn't be suspicious if a guy was trying to convince you to give him your SSN for a security check while his priest buddy was furiously praying over a rosary right next to him?

 

[Pauln6]

Wait, you wouldn't be suspicious if a guy was trying to convince you to give him your SSN for a security check while his priest buddy was furiously praying over a rosary right next to him?

Disadvantage with +1d4. A worthy trade off.

 

[OB1]

I never had an issue with PCs spamming Guidance, but still love this change.

The Spiritual Weapon update is fascinating in how it changes Cleric tactics. It suddenly makes Cure Wounds a much better option than Healing Word in mid tiers. Drop a 4th level SW, giving you 3d8 damage a round as a bonus, then run around the back line hitting your allies with 2nd level CWs while still doing decent damage each round. I do think they should up the movement speed of the SW to at least 30, if not 50, though. Otherwise it's too easy for enemies to avoid. The speed wasn't a huge issue when it wasn't concentration (though a bit annoying), but now feels too punitive since you're giving up the ability to concentrate on other things and could end up with multiple rounds where it does nothing.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Any thoughts on the spell changes in the new UA?

I think the Guidance and Resistance changes are long overdue, though you could still spam Guidance all day if you wanted to; that may cause some heartburn at many tables. I think Spiritual Weapon and Banishment will be the more controversial spell changes (with maybe Aid thrown in by some).

Guidance was never a problem at our tables as written in 2014 so I am not sure how this fix is needed, but I trust people saw it spamed out of combat even if I didn't... BUT
how is this less spam? Just every time someone talks, searches, tracks ect they have to tie the cleric to there hip...

Resistance I have seen taken only 1 or 2 times, and never seen used well, so this MAY get it used, but again the same fear of the tie the cleric to the fighter spam...

Spiritual Weapon I really think SHOULD have been concentration, but every person playing a cleric right now in my group is complaining so I don't know how it will go over.

Aid ANOYS me... as a cleric bard or artificer it was a good 2nd level spell not broken and not a gurantee but a good one, I can't see me taking it ever as a mass barksin/heroism.