D&D (2024) December 1st UA Spell changes

[Greg Benage]

Also points out we need to know if other classes are taking power cuts or not. [/SIZE]

It seems as though they may be trying to reduce optimized DPR a bit. If so, a 1d8 extra attack might have more value than it does in 5e.

It also looks like clerics will lose at least some flexibility in spell preparation, and I’d expect to see something similar for other casters.

 

[James Gasik]

It seems as though they may be trying to reduce optimized DPR a bit. If so, a 1d8 extra attack might have more value than it does in 5e.

It also looks like clerics will lose at least some flexibility in spell preparation, and I’d expect to see something similar for other casters.

That loss in flexibility is going to be painful too, given that a large chunk of the spell list consists of "necessary spells that are rarely needed, but critical when required".

 

[Mistwell]

Then why would anyone play a wizard if the clerics got better damage and healing?

Er because wizards are the swiss army knife of the game? They're they utility class, able to cover just about anything needed with some time. They're not primary damage dealers.

 

[mellored]

They're not primary damage dealers.

Neither are clerics.

 

[Greg Benage]

That loss in flexibility is going to be painful too, given that a large chunk of the spell list consists of "necessary spells that are rarely needed, but critical when required".

Almost back to Vancian with preparation locked to spell levels. I don’t think it’s crazy to claim casters needed a nerf. And I’m the kind of player who’s run a no-caster campaign so I think I’m least likely to be bothered by it…but hoo boy they’re inciting rebellion.

Really interesting to see what looks like a 180 from the design direction in Tasha’s in many respects. It wasn’t that long ago!

 

[James Gasik]

Almost back to Vancian with preparation locked to spell levels. I don’t think it’s crazy to claim casters needed a nerf. And I’m the kind of player who’s run a no-caster campaign so I think I’m least likely to be bothered by it…but hoo boy they’re inciting rebellion.

Really interesting to see what looks like a 180 from the design direction in Tasha’s in many respects. It wasn’t that long ago!

I don't mind casters being nerfed. What I mind is when I have to prepare a bunch of spells to heal and deal with various status conditions that might come up in game, because I'm the one with access to those spells.

The game really could use non-magical methods to deal with poisons, diseases, curses, and detrimental status effects of all kinds, that are readily available to everyone, so it's not just the Cleric (or Druid's, I suppose) job! Especially if the game is supposed to be playable without a dedicated healer.

 

[Greg Benage]

I don't mind casters being nerfed. What I mind is when I have to prepare a bunch of spells to heal and deal with various status conditions that might come up in game, because I'm the one with access to those spells.

Perhaps a (large) majority of groups just deal with that stuff after their one fight of the day. In that case, you don’t need to prepare any of those spells - you’re good with healing word.

I don’t see any evidence that they’re not still designing a resource management game that most of their players (and most of their published adventures, tbf) avoid engaging.

 

[Clint_L]

Sorry, I'm not seeing where casters are being nerfed. One spell (spiritual hammer) was buffed to scale better, but an exploit was fixed that doesn't allow it to be stacked with concentration spells; most people already felt that this was a problem with it. Banishment definitely got a nerf, but again it was seen as very broken and a no-brainer choice. On the other hand, other spells are getting buffed to make them more advantageous. It's way too soon to claim that spell casters are getting nerfed overall; from what little we've seen it feels like more of a wash as WotC attempts to make spells more balanced, just as they are doing with feats.

It's possible that better balance will feel like a nerf, but then it will affect all classes because it is also happening to things like Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter. On the other hand, there are folks claiming that OneD&D is causing power creep. I think it's too early to tell, but none of the changes seem earthshaking to me thus far.

 

[Mistwell]

Neither are clerics.

True, but why must wizards do more damage than clerics given clerics have less utility than wizards?

 

[Neonchameleon]

True, but why must wizards do more damage than clerics given clerics have less utility than wizards?

First do clerics have less utility than wizards? Healing is pretty huge utility.

Second clerics are a whole lot tougher - more hit points, better armour, can self-heal.