Defeat The Vile 5' Step

[Nail]

How so? Do you include all damage taken in the round in the concentration DC? The reason you ready is so you can do damage during 'the action'.

I know you know that, just trying to understand the reasoning behind your quoted statement.

Sure.

Readying an attack is a standard action; therefore you only get one attack. At higher levels (necessary caveat), you'd be losing your iterative attacks. And if you are two-weapon fighting, it's even worse. By readying you are missing a lot of potential damage for a chance to ruin a spell.

Since spell-slingers often (tho' not always) have fewer hp than average, it's better to just pound on 'em 'till they drop. (Or be tricky and grapple, trip, sunder, etc) After a full attack, the wizard is either dead, or worried enough to try an escape spell...and in either case, he's no longer targeting you with spells.

Moreover, if I'm playing a mage and I see a nearby fighter ready an action, it's a safe bet he's readying to attack if I cast. So I do something else (wand, potion, scroll, or....manuever!) and his action is lost. (I've done this in actual play, BTW. Really p*sses the Ftr off. )

I'm not saying readying is never a good idea....it just is usually not good.

 

[Nail]

If you wanted to get really cheesy you build an archer with TWF and take the elven bow so when some one comes into your square you still threaten and you can attack like your armed with a Quarterstaff

Errr? "elven bow" = quarterstaff? What splat book is that from?

 

[Nail]

unless your an 8th level archer going after a 3rd level paladin/ 1st fighter with a +13 to hit and human bane arrows and most likely hasted or some other feats I dont know about so you can move 5' shoot 3 times for about an average of 25 points of damage which clobbers you because its more than half you hitpoints, so you can only take a single action which is to hunt cover because the elf moved more than 40' away so you cant charge him.

There's a key on your keyboard below and to the right of the "L" key. Please ue it more often. Occasionally throw in the key below the "\" key called "enter". (There's an extra one of those in the number pad, should you need it.) Thanks.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Errr? "elven bow" = quarterstaff? What splat book is that from?

Races of the Wild, I think.

It's a longbow that can be used, in an emergency, as a quarterstaff. I haven't read the actual rules on it, however.

 

[focallength]

The races of the wild. I actually built a scout off of this bow, mr. fighter comes in to sunder or grapple and you get an AoO. Its also nice when your in H2H you can switch it from a bow to a 1/4 staff as a free action. Later on you can magic up the bow part and the quarterstaff part giving you two nasty magical weapons. I never got far enough to do it but Im sure if your clever enough you can use this to your advantage, giving magical enhacements to both (parts) that compliment eachother,basically carrying a +20 (+5 bow w/+5 enhacements and a +5 1/4 staff w/ +5 enhacements)weapon, could be very nasty. If your not familliar with it, its basically a extra sturdy bow that can be used as a quarterstaff or a club depending on size in close combat, switching its use is a free action.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Back to the 5'Step

Methinks your problem lay not in the RAW of the 5' Step, but a game with overpowering CR enounters.

Regardless of the magic being used, the reading of the 5' Step is

If you have not otherwise moved, you can take a 5' Step that does not draw an AoO

or something to that effect.. too lazy to go to the SRD

If the enemy takes a step back, attacks, and then {through some Haste ability} moves.. you get to back up time and take an AoO from his initial movement as it no longer qualifies as a 5'Step...

The fully weird part of this can be that he Steps, kills you... moves {creating the retroactive AoO}.. and you slay him before he slays you

This is why DM's.. and players... need to know that when they declare the use of a 5' Step.. they are eliminating the oppotunity to move for the rest of thier action. Retroactive stuff just messes up the game.


Oh.. and the Palidon thing is/was/has been a thing for another thread.... but agreed.

 

[Whimsical]

Here ya' go!

From the System Reference Document 3.5:

MISCELLANEOUS ACTIONS

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance.

Note that you CAN take a 5' step if you do a move action or actions that don't involve movement.

From the System Reference Document 3.5:

Move

The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can’t also take a 5-foot step.

 

[kanithardm]

I would count the 5 step as a swift action

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I would count the 5 step as a swift action

I wouldn't.

You can only make one swift action a round. A quickened spell is a swift action.

You can make a 5' step and cast a quickened spell in the same round.

 

[Felnar]

apparently my point is missed yet again...

i feel it is wrong, that in the midst of melee combat, one combatent can take a 5ft step back and throw a full attack of throw weapons, and be left standing with their sword threatening their 5ft reach. All while the other combatent stands and watches (paralyzed by turn based combat).
i am not saying its better to throw stuff at your melee opponent.
i am not saying that you should step back and throw spears every round
i am saying that the written rules (how everyone else seems to like them), allow for the large tactical advantage of ranged attacks, without the downside of ranged attacks.
i see this as abusive and oh so easy to prevent, as several people on the first page suggested.

#1 Having to make that 5' step and having the vulnerability to being blocked in
#2 Not threatening
#3 Either having no stat based bonus to damage or having one stat for hit and another for damage.
#4 Composite bow users vulnerable to disarm by strength debuff
#5 Ammunition
#6 Protection from arrows (s/w 2) Windwall (s/w/c 3) - for bow users
#7 crappy damage/crit vs melee - for thrown weapons
#8 Burn a feat on quick draw - for thrown weapons

#1 you dont have to throw each round, you are exactly as good at melee as any fighter, you just have this large tactical option
#2 you threaten just as much without taking a 5ft step (because your opponent could just 5ft step back before any action that would provoke an AoO anyway). You're still holding your sword so they cant move past you without an AoO.
#3 power throw -or- dont rely on stats to make your hits
#4 you're throwing, not using a bow
#5 shortspears weigh 3lbs, you can afford to carry a few volleys worth
#6 yes, magic can do lots of things, better those than ray of exhaustion though
#7 whats better, moving/provokingAoO/single standard melee attack, or, full iterative thrown attack. choose whats best for your situation
#8 disarmed? sundered? need a certain weapon for DR? use quick draw

where is the downside of having a tactical ranged attack option?
is the fighter build so cramped that you cant spare a single feat?
- Felnar