Deities & Demigods

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ColonelHardisson said:
I don't what you guys consider "official," but in the CoC d20 book, page 289, under Divine Qualities: (snip)
Sounds like divine rank to me...

D&DG has the same mechanic. The deity's rank (eg, Lesser, Greater etc...) determines a general bonus on pretty much everything; the deity's divine rank gives a range of other bonuses equal to that rank.

Cheers
NPP

PS: Can I just say that a week of reading D&DG has really whetted my appetite for ELH? If ELH is done this well, I can honestly say that I am really looking forward to running EL adventures. :)
 

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Hi there Spatula! :)

Spatula said:
Considering how powerful even demigods are, it doesn't seem like it's possible for player characters to beat on gods without having ELH... unless they themselves are gods. Since ELH and DDG are seperate rulesets that don't depend on one another, I was thinking that perhaps DDG was going to provide rules for advancing through the divine ranks... Something like the OD&D Immortals rules perhaps. I would have found that very interesting.

I don't think roleplaying Immortals/Deities was ever the focus of Deities & Demigods.

However (not to blow my own trumpet*), that is the primary focus of the Immortals Handbook.

*Ah what the hell, why not! :D

Spatula said:
Lacking rules for playing gods, what's the purpose of providing stats for them? From what I've seen so far, anything greater than a demigod is unbeatable by regular (i.e. non-epic) characters.

I agree, it does seem self-defeating.
 

Horacio said:


What could I do to make somebody of WotC fall in love with my sister?

:)

What could I do to make some WotC guy to fall in love with ME. :)

Just kidding. :)


I am curiously waiting for Deities & Demigods, though thus far I am bit dissapointed how they handled some things.

You see, I've played a lot of epic games, and every game system I've ever played has problems with handling higher power levels. They choose easy way aka. let's keep our actualy system stats in easily handable power level (stats, levels, skills, spells etc.) and instead give them couple of special abilites to make them 'seem' powerful. Problem is, to me, they only seem powerful, but don't feel powerful. And gods are supposed to feel epic and powerful, otherwise they lack mythical qualities that drives people to worship them. Of course, this is campaing specific, but "your avarage high-level campaing" doesn't really need "power intimidating" gods, they aren't probably around that much anyway.

This is something I find very easy to do myself. Giving couple of uber-special-ablities and other stats to pretty much about equal to higher ranks of dragons otherwise. Of course i like cool special abilites, especially one's I didn't manage to think up myself. Problem is, they aren't always cool, and sometimes, if they are only sight of unusual power, they come up as pretty lame excuse of just designers getting off easy here.

Then we get Marvel super hero.... um, epic handbook later to be used by our 'mortal' player characters, which could very well just continue rising up levels as monsters get HD, if need be. What you need those epic powers for really, are stories where epic monsters, nature's cataclysms and gods (or something akin) are involted. If you keep using just MM monster-slaying themes, you end up playing said superheroes game, with all the more easy way to slay your non-unique tarrasques. Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as it is fun. That, or then we just get book full of lame, hafl-baked feat min-max hell. This means turning meaning of 'epic' or 'high level' character into super specialists, where one has to think up character's feat-picking from start of 1st level character creation, or you never get those that 'cool stuff' at somewhere around 40th level. Problem with this is, that it makes every high level monk of certain PrC to look the same, so to say.

But please, dismiss my said thoughs on that, my true opinions never form until I actually see stuff I speak of, and even them they are likely to change many times over.

I'd wanted to see WotC make three books. One to combine epic and divane rules, with few examples, Greyhawk specific rather, since they use that world their basic one, anyway.

Then book about deities, where pantheon specific rituals, spells, monsters, artifacts and others such goodies would be found toom.

Then epic 'goods' book, with more epic characters, magic items, monsters, demon&devil lords (those not also gods), and one or two short epic adventures could be found.

Then there would still be room for Faints & Avatars, for those playing in FR, with more spesific goods for specialist priests or whatever one wants to call them, and other such setting religion stuff, besides thos divane stat.

Whatever WotC would loose money or gain it by doing it this way, I know not, but I am certain major reason they did it way they did it, is because that's the way it wa< done in prior edition.

I am really tired currenly, so forgive my writing style.
 

Derulbaskul said:


It does have information on divine ascension, but there are no "nuts'n'bolts" in terms of ability score increases etc....

Cheers
NPP

This bothers me more than anything this far. Never mind wanting PC divane ascension into game, or stuff like that, but how I am suppesed to make god according to rules, if there are no explanation on stats. Besides, let's say, I start to build such 'template' from human or ancient red wyrm (mmh, must be one module, that made me think this), I do get pretty different stat-setup at start.

So, supposed I'd love to use rules, I'd want to know if there are any differences because of racial stat-level that effects the said divane template, or is there some minimum or maximum standard for said stats.

Also, I'd not want to see any silly system, that makes my ancient red wyrms stats worse, than they were before divane template, because that'd just be too silly and make me loose all respect for said rules (unless there was some specific reason for such case).

I really don't care if WotC has some logical system behind their divane stats or not, if they don't explain it clearly in the book somewhere, part of it's value as book for 'make your own patheon with this' goes down the drain IMO.
 

Well, I don't really see increases in Divine Rank increasing your stats. It seems to me that WotC intends Divine Rank to only really affect your divine powers. That makes sense to me.

However, it also makes sense to have divine powers that would provide bonuses to your stats, like a Divine Strength power for gods with the Strength portfolio/domain that adds your divine rank to your strength score, or something like that.

Natural stat increases should come with level advances, and I do think that gods should be able to gain levels. :)
 

Upper_Krust said:
Hi Nightfall mate! :)
Azathoth is (technically) Divine Rank 20.*
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=cthulhu/article/ex20020321h
*Notice he has a +20 Divine bonus to AC. Damage Reduction 55/+4; Spell Resistance 52; Fire Resistance 40 etc.

Mr Krust,

You simply do not need this book.

You're perfectly correct based on:

Damage reduction= 35+DR/4, thus A is DR 20
Spell resistance= 32+DR, thus A is DR 20
Fire resistance= 20+DR, thus A is DR 20

Hmmm, methinks that A is DR 20. Doubters can cross-check against pp 26-27 in D&DG.

Cheers
NPP
 

Florin said:
Well, I don't really see increases in Divine Rank increasing your stats. It seems to me that WotC intends Divine Rank to only really affect your divine powers. That makes sense to me.

However, it also makes sense to have divine powers that would provide bonuses to your stats, like a Divine Strength power for gods with the Strength portfolio/domain that adds your divine rank to your strength score, or something like that.

Natural stat increases should come with level advances, and I do think that gods should be able to gain levels. :)

There are no mechanics described for gaining stat increases. This seems to be a glaring omission or I have failed to read the book properly (and I think it's the former).

Cheers
NPP
 

ColonelHardisson said:
I don't what you guys consider "official," but in the CoC d20 book, page 289, under Divine Qualities:
(snip)
Sounds like divine rank to me...

ColonelHardisson,
Just to clarify, the specific rules are as follows:

Always Maximise Roll: Greater deities automatically get the best result possible on any check, saving throw, attack roll or damage roll.... This quality means that greater deities never need the Maximise Spell feat, because their spells have maximum effect already.
Saving Throws: ... A deity gets its divine rank as a divine bonus on all saving throws....
Checks: A deity gets is divine rank as a divine bonus on all skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks and turning checks....

DR is also added to the DC of spell-like abilities, its (clerical) domain powers can be used a number of times a day equal to its DR, a deity's sense depend on its DR etc.... In short, it's a pretty important number in the stat block.

Cheers
NPP
 


Derulbaskul said:


There are no mechanics described for gaining stat increases. This seems to be a glaring omission or I have failed to read the book properly (and I think it's the former).

Now, when you say that there are no mechanics, does that mean that there are no salient abilities or portfolio/domain abilities that augment stats? Because I would assume that the standard 1 stat point per 4 character levels would still apply. So, that is a mechanic that could be used. They may not state it outright, but I don't think it's unreasonable to assume it would still be in effect.

Also, deities seem to have the ability to create magic items, including those that give stat bonuses. So, there are ways to boost stats for deities.
 
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