Deities & Demigods

[CRGreathouse]

Smart money would be on Monster Manual II I think

I agree. If it's in an announced product, MMII will be it. I really don't think they'd put it in the ELH; it doesn't seem to fit. (IMO)

 

[jasamcarl]

Flexor....

How immature are you? you are prone to wild hyporbole, most notably the use of the term 'useless'? Even if one is using the Epic Level Handbook, how would the gods' stats as written be rendered useless simply because they are not optomized for 'flavor' within the available rules? Their level is still high, and with a plethora of divine abilities, i start to doubt how much your players are going to begin griping about the class breakdown...i always find it difficult to tolerate people who are unable to envision real INPLAY consequences of rules and instead harp on their flavor, which mostly arises through actual player-dm interaction.

And may i ask another question? whose case are you arguing, your own? if you are not planning on purchasing the ELH, how are these stats redered worthless to you? And if the Demon Princes are destined for the ELH, presumably because they are so powerful as to require their opponents to be epic level, what need do you have for their stats? Let me guess, flavor.....if you are not going to go Epic, or as you alluded to on a prior board, you plan to 'implement' (chuckle) your own system, then the CR and EL calculations are going to be so off for you that you either 'fudge' it or go through enough alterations that the original stat-block is worthless to you.....

jeez.....

 

[omedon]

So no Grazz't then? Shoot, I will actually have to think before picking this book up then. I want my Grazz't!

So what is the Consesus? Will Grazz't and other demon lords show up in MM2 or will there be a 3E Fiend Folio? Maybe they will show up in the Book of Vile Darkness? Or maybe not at all?

Hmm... Maybe we should make a poll.

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Any chance of you posting some info on Kurtulmak, the Kobold God?

*tries to find the password for his alt handle, "Klaw of Kurtulmak"*

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Re: Flexor....

How immature are you? you are prone to wild hyporbole, most notably the use of the term 'useless'? Even if one is using the Epic Level Handbook, how would the gods' stats as written be rendered useless simply because they are not optomized for 'flavor' within the available rules? Their level is still high, and with a plethora of divine abilities, i start to doubt how much your players are going to begin griping about the class breakdown...i always find it difficult to tolerate people who are unable to envision real INPLAY consequences of rules and instead harp on their flavor, which mostly arises through actual player-dm interaction.

And may i ask another question? whose case are you arguing, your own? if you are not planning on purchasing the ELH, how are these stats redered worthless to you? And if the Demon Princes are destined for the ELH, presumably because they are so powerful as to require their opponents to be epic level, what need do you have for their stats? Let me guess, flavor.....if you are not going to go Epic, or as you alluded to on a prior board, you plan to 'implement' (chuckle) your own system, then the CR and EL calculations are going to be so off for you that you either 'fudge' it or go through enough alterations that the original stat-block is worthless to you.....

jeez.....

Oh did you get upset when I stated I dislike how WOTC handles high level PC's, how it shouldn't take a 40+ dollar, new set of rules to play PC's that hit a certain level, How they shouldn't put out books that will be rendered partially obsolete when a new rulebook hits in three months? I guess I'm bitching not really for me or my players as much as bitching about how WOTC has handled the whole release of the 3E. So now the stats for the Epics, who you may have been using in your game via FR rules will change, the stats for the dieties will change(unless mortal spellcasters having more levels than the god of magic makes sence to you). etc. Are the stats for Tiamat & Bahumut different in the D&Dg different from those in the MOP? Do I now have more out of date pages in a book I bought a few months ago? It's more of a general bitch than a specific one.

I suppose it won't affect my game much. Like I said in other threads, I'll read the book when it comes out and make a final decision then, I may just keep the level advancement going up above 20th level according to the pattern in the PHB, as what I've heard about the ELH screams, "Uber-Munchkinism is now in the core rules", but I may be wrong. The "fact" that the game will supposedly fall apart after 20th level is telling to me. We always played fine in 1st edition at that level and nobody was screaming, "everything is out of BALANCE!!!" Maybe my lingering dissatifaction with 3e colors my viewpoint. Who knows? But as long as I feel like bitching I'll bitch.

 

[Information]

I don't see D&Dg not using the Epic Level rules as being a problem. Hasn't there already been a distinction made between characters "with the divine spark" and those of an Epic nature!? And besides, just because Boccob is "only" a 20th level wizard doesn't stop a given DM from modifying his stats. What about all of his spell-like abilities, salient abilities (of which there will be 16 if he is DR 16[?]), divine abilities, et al!?

Personally, I'll be using the deity stats "as is" along with the Epic Level rules, without modifying the former. It doesn't trouble me in the least.

If anything could have been done differently, it would have been the notion of Epic Levels. I'm not crazy about it at all. I'd have prefered simply being able to advance beyond 20th level.

 

[Dream]

Originally posted by Flexor:

Oh did you get upset when I stated I dislike how WOTC handles high level PC's, how it shouldn't take a 40+ dollar, new set of rules to play PC's that hit a certain level, How they shouldn't put out books that will be rendered partially obsolete when a new rulebook hits in three months? I guess I'm bitching not really for me or my players as much as bitching about how WOTC has handled the whole release of the 3E. So now the stats for the Epics, who you may have been using in your game via FR rules will change, the stats for the dieties will change(unless mortal spellcasters having more levels than the god of magic makes sence to you). etc. Are the stats for Tiamat & Bahumut different in the D&Dg different from those in the MOP? Do I now have more out of date pages in a book I bought a few months ago? It's more of a general bitch than a specific one.

Just my own thoughts.

 

[WanderingMonster]

If it weren't for all the uninformed ranting and wild speculation, this thread would have only been informational. Thanks to a dedicated few, it's now "infotainment!"

Thanks guys!

 

[Dream]

You´re welcome!

 

[jasamcarl]

Ok....

How does the release of the epic rules render the stats in D&D obsolete, by which i mean unplayable? These CAPs books were always meant to stand on their own, and since it is generally true that the same people who are play Epic characters are not the gods themselves, i don't see how IN-PLAY any of this whining matters? You are obviously one of those who becomes gigly by simply reading rules, or the rules as fiction approach which i find so abhorant...As if the printed word has its own dynamic..this is often a weakness of many dms, but...

No the dieties aren't optomized (atleast via flavor, they are perfectly consistent with the Epic Rules), the drawback to this is minor and in play, practically non-existent. Did you expect Wotc to curtail innovation and the future benefits thereof just to make the READING the rules as oppossed to PLAYING them more aesthetically pleasing?

jeez.....