Demon Paragon Path and Epic Destiny

[Arctic Wolf]

Hope you enjoy my ideas


Demon Inititate

The Chaos of The Abyss resides within me, hoping to burst forth. After battling demons throughout my life, I can unleash it and with this demonic power, I shall make all who stand in my way bend their knee to me!

Prerequisite: Any Arcane class

Demon Initiate Path Features:

Uncontainable Chaos (11th level): When you spend an action point, you can deal 2d8 extra Necrotic damage with the next attack you make that hits until the end of your next turn.

Unholy Fury (11th level): Your necrotic attacks treat enemies that have necrotic resistence as having no resistence, and your enemies that have necrotic immunity as having resistence equal to one-half their level.

Demonic Embrace (16th level): You gain darkvision and are considered an elemental and a demon when using effects that deal with origin and type. Also, you can crit on a 19-20 roll with attacks that have the Necrotic keyword.

Demon Initiate Abilities

Defiling Blade - Attack level 11
You hold tighly onto your implement, focusing all your anger and hatred toward your foe into it and manifesting an unholy blade of pure destruction. You then strike your foe, and weaken them if they dare stand up again before you.
Encounter* Arcane, Abyss, Implement, Necrotic
Standard Action Melee 1 or Range 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Highest Ability Score vs Fort
Hit: 2d8 + Highest Ability Score modifier necrotic damage, and the target is weakened until the end of the next of your next turn. If this damage drops a creature to zero or fewer hit points, that creature dies and this power is not expended.
Special: This power can be used as a melee basic attack when charging.

Demonic Visage - Utility level 12
Necrotic energy surrounds your body, giving you a demonic look and increasing the power of your attacks and resistence to chaos.
Daily*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: Until the end of the encounter, all your attacks deal an extra 1d8 necrotic damage and you gain 10 necrotic resistence.

Insidious Annilation - Attack level 20
While chanting blasphemous demonic utterances, you trace an outline of a circle in front of you. After you finish, demonic runes appear around it and you thrust forth your implement into the center, releasing a wave of demonic energy at your enemies.
Daily* Arcane, Abyss, Implement, Necrotic
Stanard Action Blast 5
Target: All enemies in blast.
Attack: Highest Ability Score vs Fort
Hit: 4d8+ Highest Ability Score modifer necrotic damage, and the targets are weakened and dazed (save ends both).
Miss: Half damage and the targets aren't dazed or weakened.


Demon Lord

Watch out lord's of the Abyss, a new ruler is on the way, and all who stand in my path will be consumed by my overwhelming power!

Prerequisite: Demon Initiate Paragon Path, 21st level

Demon Lord Features

Overwhelming Cunning (21st level): Increase two abiltiy scores of your choice by 2 each. Also, your ranged and area attacks do not provoke opportunity attacks.

Variable Resistance (24th level): As an immediate reaction for when you take damage, you can gain 15 resistance to that damage type until the end of the encounter. You can use this twice per encounter. You can expand a Demonic Rune to use this ability again.

Demon Lord's Revival (30th level): Once per day when you would die, gain hit points equal to your bloodied value and you are removed from play. At the start of your next turn, you return to play in an unoccupied space within 10 squares of the space you last occupied, and gain the benefits of Demon Lord Transformation until the end of the encounter, even if this power was expanded. You do not gain the benefit of using Demonic Runes in this way.

Demon Lord Form - Utility level 26
You bathe in chaotic energy and transform into your true demonic form for a short time. A crown of demonic runes appears above your head, mocking any demon you face and focusing your attacks to be more precise.
Daily*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain resist 10 to all damage until the end of the encounter. In addition, roll a 1d6, you gain that many Demonic Runes around your head until the end of the encounter. Once per turn, you may expend a Demonic Rune as a free action to reroll an attack you make; you must keep the new result.

Thanks for reading and what do you all think?

 

[chitzk0i]

Demon Inititate

Prerequisite: Not sure yet, was deciding for my class I'm making but could work for anyone if modified enough.

You'll probably get more responses in the... huh. I wonder what they did with the House Rules forum. For prerequisites, you might consider "any arcane class" and multiclass into warlock.

Demon Initiate Path Features:

Demonic Embrace (11th level): You are considered an elemental and a demon when using effects that deal with these two. You can speak abyssal and have darkvision. In addition, when bloodied, you deal an extra 1d6 damage (increases to 2d6 at lvl 21).

Handing out dice of damage is rather powerful. Try "While you are bloodied, the first time you hit with an attack each round, you deal 1d6 extra necrotic damage." Probably doesn't need to go up at 21.

Demonic Vitality Offering (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can offer up one healing surge to either increase the damage you do by 1d8 or skill check value by 1d6. (Wasn't sure whether to keep it the same but feedback is helpful).

A healing surge is pretty steep. You also need a duration on it. "Once per encounter as a minor action (or as a free action when you spend an action point), you can spend a healing surge to gain one of the following benefits until the end of your next turn: deal 2d8 extra necrotic damage with the next attack you make that hits or gain +1d6 bonus to your next skill check. Either bonus lasts until the end of your next turn."

Demonic Fury (16th level): Targets that are immune to necrotic damage now take half the damage you deal with attacks that have the necrotic keyword.

"When you hit a creature with a necrotic attack, you deal half damage if the creature is immune to necrotic damage."

Demon Initiate Abilities

Defiling Blade- Attack level 11
Encounter* Arcane, Necrotic, Weapon/Implement
Standard Action Range 5/ Melee 1
Target: One Creature
Attack: xxx vs Fort
Hit: 3d10 plus xxx modifier necrotic damage, and the target is weakened until the end of the next of your next turn. If this attack kills a target, you can use it again.
Special: Can be used when charging.

Defiling Blade Demon Initiate Attack 11
Encounter * Arcane, Implement, Necrotic
Standard Action Ranged 5 or Melee 1
Target: One Creature
Attack: Highest ability score vs Fort
Hit: 3d10 + highest ability score necrotic damage and the target is weakened until end of next turn. If this damage drops a creature to zero or fewer hit points, that creature dies and this power is not expended.
Special: This power can be used as a melee attack in place of a melee basic attack when charging.

Demon Transformation- Utility level 12
Encounter*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain a bonus of +2 AC and +1 to all other defenses and your attack and damage rolls until the end of the encounter.
(This was mainly decided for my class since it can only use cloth and I am having an option in the builds to do melee or ranged combat. I know for other classes it would be a daily but in the epic destiny I was going to have it include an upgraded version).

Hahaha no. Daily. Also, a make everything a power bonus.

Annilation Blast- Attack level 20
Daily* Arcane, Necrotic, Weapon/Implement
Stanard Action Blast 5
Target: All enemies in blast.
Attack: xxx vs Fort
Hit: 4d8+ xxx modifer necrotic damage, and the targets are weakened and dazed (save ends both).

Nothing especially wrong with this one. See revised Defiling Blade.

Demon Lord

Prerequisite: 21st level xxxxx class

Demon Lord Features

Demon Lord's Strength (21st level): Increase two abiltiy scores of your choice by 2 each. Also when you kill a nonminion monster, you gain one healing surge.

"Once per encounter when you drop an enemy to zero hit points or fewer, you regain a healing surge."

Demon Lord's Ferocity (24th level): You can offer one healing surge when you make an attack against a enemy is is immune to necrotic damage to do full damage. You can only use this once per round per attack.

"Once per round, when you hit an enemy that is immune to necrotic damage, you can take 15 damage as a free action to ignore that enemy's necrotic resistance for this attack."

Demon Lord's Revival (30th level): The first time you are reduced to 0 hit points each day you do a burst 1 attack vs Fort that does 3d8 damage and then can revive anywhere within the burst as your Demon Transformation at your bloodied value.

How about "Once per day when you would die, instead you deal 3d8 + your highest ability modifier to each creature adjacent to you and you are removed from play until the start of your next turn. When you return to play, you have hit points equal to your bloodied value and are standing. As a free action, you may use your Demon Lord Transformation power even if it is expended."

Demon Lord Transformation - Utility level 26
Daily*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Prerequisitie: Must be in Demon Transformation.
Effect: You gain +4 AC and +2 to all oither defenses and your attack roll and damage roll. This effect replaces the effects of your Demon Transformation.

Thanks for reading and what do you all think?

Drop the prereq. Plain power bonuses are blah. How about "Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value and until the end of the encounter, you gain resist 10 to all damage. In addition, roll 1d6. Until the end of the encounter, you may choose to reroll that number of missed attack rolls. For instance, if you roll a 4 with this power, you may reroll four different attack rolls this encounter.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

You'll probably get more responses in the... huh. I wonder what they did with the House Rules forum. For prerequisites, you might consider "any arcane class" and multiclass into warlock.

I kind of had a feeling they did lol and that sounds good. I considered that only an arcane and maybe a martial power class would even consider it.

Handing out dice of damage is rather powerful. Try "While you are bloodied, the first time you hit with an attack each round, you deal 1d6 extra necrotic damage." Probably doesn't need to go up at 21.

Hmm, true it would be overpoweref with the extra d6 I had and I like it.

A healing surge is pretty steep. You also need a duration on it. "Once per encounter as a minor action (or as a free action when you spend an action point), you can spend a healing surge to gain one of the following benefits until the end of your next turn: deal 2d8 extra necrotic damage with the next attack you make that hits or gain +1d6 bonus to your next skill check. Either bonus lasts until the end of your next turn.".

You think it is still steep after you modified it?

"When you hit a creature with a necrotic attack, you deal half damage if the creature is immune to necrotic damage.".

I like it the rewording to match more of the books

Defiling Blade Demon Initiate Attack 11
Encounter * Arcane, Implement, Necrotic
Standard Action Ranged 5 or Melee 1
Target: One Creature
Attack: Highest ability score vs Fort
Hit: 3d10 + highest ability score necrotic damage and the target is weakened until end of next turn. If this damage drops a creature to zero or fewer hit points, that creature dies and this power is not expended.
Special: This power can be used as a melee attack in place of a melee basic attack when charging. .

Same as above and everything worked dmg and effect wise?

Hahaha no. Daily. Also, a make everything a power bonus.

True, should of said a bonus lol. What about throwing something in there that it becomes an encounter when you get the demon lord transformation since it will become trivial?

Nothing especially wrong with this one. See revised Defiling Blade.

Might just call it something else, maybe just Annilation or Breath of Annilation.

"Once per encounter when you drop an enemy to zero hit points or fewer, you regain a healing surge.".

Would this still be op if it was once per round but only counted for nonminions?

"Once per round, when you hit an enemy that is immune to necrotic damage, you can take 15 damage as a free action to ignore that enemy's necrotic resistance for this attack.".

How about offer a choice of taking damage or a healing surge?

How about "Once per day when you would die, instead you deal 3d8 + your highest ability modifier to each creature adjacent to you and you are removed from play until the start of your next turn. When you return to play, you have hit points equal to your bloodied value and are standing. As a free action, you may use your Demon Lord Transformation power even if it is expended."
.

I was thinking it would be better to use the Demon Transformation instead because I would think you would be in Demon Lord form and when demons die they sometimes leave behind a lesser version of theirselves ( in the demonomicon).

Drop the prereq. Plain power bonuses are blah. How about "Effect: You gain temporary hit points equal to your healing surge value and until the end of the encounter, you gain resist 10 to all damage. In addition, roll 1d6. Until the end of the encounter, you may choose to reroll that number of missed attack rolls. For instance, if you roll a 4 with this power, you may reroll four different attack rolls this encounter.

That does sound really good for the Demon Lord Transformation.

Thanks for the feedback and that does sound interesting with what you have given me. I kinda thought what I just spat out with no sleep was pretty overpowered in terms of damage after I got to think about it at work. Anything else to say?

 

[chitzk0i]

My point about the HS cost on the action point ability is that if you should get a bit more if you're spending a surge on it. The PP utility should stay a daily. Except for the damage bonus, all those effects are equally beneficial at all tiers of play. In general, if it lasts until the end of the encounter, it should be daily or have a drawback. The healing surge generating ability should not be pumping you full of surges; it should probably be nonminion enemies and 1/enc. 15 damage is going to be significantly less than a healing surge by the time you get that feature, so that makes it more useable.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

My point about the HS cost on the action point ability is that if you should get a bit more if you're spending a surge on it. The PP utility should stay a daily. Except for the damage bonus, all those effects are equally beneficial at all tiers of play. In general, if it lasts until the end of the encounter, it should be daily or have a drawback. The healing surge generating ability should not be pumping you full of surges; it should probably be nonminion enemies and 1/enc. 15 damage is going to be significantly less than a healing surge by the time you get that feature, so that makes it more useable.

Ok, I understand where you are coming from and it makes sense. So what are your feelings on Arcane and Martial power people using this? You think it should only stay to Arcane and people who mutli/hybrid into an arcane class?

 

[mneme]

Demon Inititate

Prerequisite: Not sure yet, was deciding for my class I'm making but could work for anyone if modified enough.

I'd probably make it "any arcane", sure. Or maybe "any non-good"; even though alignment restrictions are generally discouraged, this is a good one to have one.

Demon Initiate Path Features:

Demonic Embrace (11th level): You are considered an elemental and a demon when using effects that deal with these two. You can speak abyssal and have darkvision. In addition, when bloodied, you deal an extra 1d6 damage (increases to 2d6 at lvl 21).

Ok, here's where I'm thinking KISS (keep it simple). The idea here came out of an elemental class, but really this is more about demonic stuff (also, remember that elemental creatures in the 4everse are Primordials, not demons nor devils).

Regardling the extra damage, you want to compare at most to Kensai (probably the strongest extra damage class). There, it's +1 to hit at 11th, +4 to damage at 16th, with a restriction of a single weapon type. Bloodied-only means you can make it twice as strong as Kensai (more or less), but you don't want to be better than that.

Demonic Vitality Offering (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you can offer up one healing surge to either increase the damage you do by 1d8 or skill check value by 1d6. (Wasn't sure whether to keep it the same but feedback is helpful).

I agree with chitzk0i that this is way too weak. Dunno how attached you are to the healing surge sacrifice mechanic. I could see either of:

When you spend an action point to make an attack, you may spend a healing surge to increase the damage of your first attack in that action by your healing surge value. When you spend an action point to make a skill roll, you may spend a healing surge to roll twice for that skill roll and take whichever result you choose.

Or, say, When you spend an action point, gain 2d6 necrotic damage on any damage rolls made during the resulting action, and gain 1d6 to any skill checks you make as part of that action.

Demonic Fury (16th level): Targets that are immune to necrotic damage now take half the damage you deal with attacks that have the necrotic keyword.

I'd reword this as: Half the necrotic damage you inflict ignores necrotic immunity and resistance.

That way, if you have another way to pierce (or partially pierce) necrotic resistance, they would more or less stack.

Demon Initiate Abilities

Defiling Blade- Attack level 11
Encounter* Arcane, Necrotic, Weapon/Implement
Standard Action Range 5/ Melee 1
Target: One Creature
Attack: xxx vs Fort
Hit: 3d10 plus xxx modifier necrotic damage, and the target is weakened until the end of the next of your next turn. If this attack kills a target, you can use it again.
Special: Can be used when charging.

Seems a bit too good (the E11 should be at an encounter attack level; this feels too strong for that; I'd think that an E11 that inflicted Weakened would be 2W at best, whereas 3d10 is 3W). I'd also make it either melee/weapon/2W or ranged/implement/2d10, but not both.

Demon Transformation- Utility level 12
Encounter*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain a bonus of +2 AC and +1 to all other defenses and your attack and damage rolls until the end of the encounter.
(This was mainly decided for my class since it can only use cloth and I am having an option in the builds to do melee or ranged combat. I know for other classes it would be a daily but in the epic destiny I was going to have it include an upgraded version).

You've hit the nail on the head here that it's way too good. No, further than that.
Make it part of your base class (with possible increase) instead. (and it's still basically too good, added onto any reasonable striker package).

You need a level 16 feature.

Annilation Blast- Attack level 20
Daily* Arcane, Necrotic, Weapon/Implement
Stanard Action Blast 5
Target: All enemies in blast.
Attack: xxx vs Fort
Hit: 4d8+ xxx modifer necrotic damage, and the targets are weakened and dazed (save ends both).

This is fine, if strong and controllery, but you do neeed to decide whether it's weapon or implement.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

I'd probably make it "any arcane", sure. Or maybe "any non-good"; even though alignment restrictions are generally discouraged, this is a good one to have one.

I was thinking Arcane also but maybe Martial too if i revise the damage for the attacks.

Ok, here's where I'm thinking KISS (keep it simple). The idea here came out of an elemental class, but really this is more about demonic stuff (also, remember that elemental creatures in the 4everse are Primordials, not demons nor devils).

Well only reason I decided to go with elemental was because all demons are elementals in the MMs and because I thought that a Natural demon seemed weird. But that is my reasoning behind it.

Regardling the extra damage, you want to compare at most to Kensai (probably the strongest extra damage class). There, it's +1 to hit at 11th, +4 to damage at 16th, with a restriction of a single weapon type. Bloodied-only means you can make it twice as strong as Kensai (more or less), but you don't want to be better than that.

Which book is that from? I am still new and haven't had a chance to go through all the books. So I should just leave it at the 1d6 and keep it that way through epic?

I agree with chitzk0i that this is way too weak. Dunno how attached you are to the healing surge sacrifice mechanic. I could see either of:

When you spend an action point to make an attack, you may spend a healing surge to increase the damage of your first attack in that action by your healing surge value. When you spend an action point to make a skill roll, you may spend a healing surge to roll twice for that skill roll and take whichever result you choose.

Or, say, When you spend an action point, gain 2d6 necrotic damage on any damage rolls made during the resulting action, and gain 1d6 to any skill checks you make as part of that action.

Honestly, I can't decide which one sounds better lol.

I'd reword this as: Half the necrotic damage you inflict ignores necrotic immunity and resistance.

That way, if you have another way to pierce (or partially pierce) necrotic resistance, they would more or less stack.

That sounds good.

Seems a bit too good (the E11 should be at an encounter attack level; this feels too strong for that; I'd think that an E11 that inflicted Weakened would be 2W at best, whereas 3d10 is 3W). I'd also make it either melee/weapon/2W or ranged/implement/2d10, but not both.

Makes sense since weakened is a pretty strong thing to add onto an attack. Ok down it to 2W or 2d10. How about the other effects? I kind of viewed it as a blade of necrotic energy that came out of your fist/implement/into your weapon and hit the enemy. But that's my specific taste.

You've hit the nail on the head here that it's way too good. No, further than that.
Make it part of your base class (with possible increase) instead. (and it's still basically too good, added onto any reasonable striker package).

You need a level 16 feature.

So ok daily, got it. Anything that should be reduced or increased?
Also the necrotic damage bypass was the level 16 feature.

This is fine, if strong and controllery, but you do neeed to decide whether it's weapon or implement.

I think I will prolly make it an implement then since that makes sense or make it kinda like the abilties where you get bonus to hit since it would be like the dragonborn breath attack to make it good for both arcane and martial. What do you think?

 

[Arctic Wolf]

Updated a few things thanks to the feedback I was getting. Thanks again everyone and keep it coming

 

[mneme]

Prereq: That's what multiclasses do; they let you qualify for feats and paragon paths. Just say "any Arcane". I'd drop the attempt at "not divine" -- remember, Asmodeous is a god. There's no reason one can't be a demon and work Divine magic.

I'd just make it "you are considered elemental and a demon".

For demonic Vitality, I'd simplify it a bit -- how about "deal +2d8 damage on your next damage roll"? Compares reasonably to abilities that give you 1d6 on damage rolls through your next turn.

Making it all Implement works.

Demonic Transformation is a lot saner. (but see below, shoudln't be a stance).

Overall, I think you're still trying to pack too many abilities into a single class -- sure, there are paragon paths that have multiple abilities on an effect line, but they're pretty rare. You've got:

F11: darkvision, language, 1d6 damage when bloodied.
A11: Extra damage + moar extra damage, or skill mod
F16: Ignore Immunity (and at my suggestion, some resistance), crit 19-20
E11: charge power, ranged power, controller power, reverse reliable.
U12: Resistance, crit surge
D20: blast controller power.

Look, everythng except the D20 is a multi-use power where at least one side (and probably both) goes into a greatest hits list. Almost the only thing on the list you aren't doing here inflicting vulnerability. Even the strongest PPs have lots of stuff they don't do. I mean, lets look at Morninglord -- one of the strongest +Striker PPs in the game:

F11: Bonus damage on F11 1/encounter (with CD)
A11: crit on 18-20 on an AP.
F16: Inflict vulnerability
E11: Moderate cb5 damage, multi-attack, auto damage
U12: good, but action-consuming healing power
D20: Single target decent damage.

So, this class has four things going for it:
1. Inflicts Radiant vulnerability.
2. All features inflict radiant damage.
3. E11 is nuts.
4. crit power.

And these four things -- with no swiss army powers, nothing that does multiple things except the E11, make it the strongest PP in the game.

Ok, now looking (less deeply) at your ED:

I like the F21. +2 to two stats is standard/strong for an ED, and the healing surge has synergy with the sacrifice theme you're working with but is still quite conditional.

I hate the F24. It's way too conditional, too weak, and doesn't synergize with the PP power that also lets you sometimes ignore necrotic immunity. EDs aren't actually usually that strong, but you want something that always works.

The D30 is almost fine (still basically does too many things), and needs a reword.

Something like:

Demon Lord's Revival (30th level): Once per day when you would die, gain hit points equal to your bloodied value and you are removed from play. At the start of your next turn, you return to play in an unoccupied space within 10 squares of the space you last occupied, and gain the benefits of Demon Lord Transformation until the end of the encounter.

I'd also reword DLT (and it shouldn't be a stance. Transformations arne't stances; polymorphs actually have similar restrictions but you can have both 1 polymorph and one stance). How about:

Demon Lord Transformation - Utility level 26
Daily*Arcane, Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You gain resist 20 to all damage until the end of the encounter. In addition, roll a 1d6 and gain that many favor tokens until the end of the encounter. Once per turn, you may expend a favor token as a free action to reroll an attack you make; you must keep the new result.

Also, I don't like having a transformation in both ED and PP. At the very least, rename them so they aren't so similar in name and effect.

 

[Arctic Wolf]

Updated and took out a few things so it wouldn't be a jack of all trades. Also got read of the healing surge mechanic since it was causing trouble.