D&D (2024) Developer Video on Druid/Paladin/Expert Feedback

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WotC has posted a video discussing initial feedback on the One D&D Druid/Paladin playtest, along with survey results from the Expert playtest. Some highlights for discussion:

Druid: The developers recognize that the template version of wild shape is contentious. If they retain this approach, they would plan to add flexibility to those templates. If they revert to monster stat blocks, they might allow Druids to choose a limited number of options, with a default selection provided.

Paladin: The new version of smite is still intended to work with critical hits. If ranged smite persists, its damage may be adjusted through the internal balance/playtesting process.

Ranger: The updated Ranger scored very well in the playtest. Some players did miss the choice of options in the Hunter subclass.

Bard: All of the Lore Bard's features scored welll, but the overall subclass rating was mediocre. They attribute this to the loss of Additional Magical Secrets, which many saw as the key attraction of this subclass.

Rogue: The change to limit sneak attack to the Rogue's own turn scored poorly. The developers generally like moving actions to a player's own turn to keep the game moving quickly, but in this case, the change doesn't seem to be worth the loss of tactical flexibility.

Feats: With the exception of epic boons, all the feats in the Expert packet scored well. The developers are still loking at written feedback for fine tuning.

Conspicuously not mentioned were the Arcane/Divine/Primal spell lists, which were the focus of a lot of discussion during the Bard playtest.

 

[Gorck]

My biggest question is: to what extent are Druids the "least played" class? there are 12 classes in the PHB, so if they were played equally, that would be 8.33% each. But they're obviously not played equally, so mathematically one of them has to be the "least played" class. If Druids are only played by 6-7% of the playerbase, that's not too bad and 1DD shouldn't stray too far from the 5e concept. But if they're only played by 1-2% of the playerbase, that's a serious problem and WOTC should probably do a massive overhaul of the class. But without seeing those percentages, we have no way of knowing just how big that gap is between the Druid and the next least played class.

 

[mamba]

Which of the others would you prefer? They both seem...not worth it, to me.

I always lean towards a simple foundation, you can always add complexity on top (subclasses of varying complexity), so 1 or 3 for D&D

In general I would rather see D&D to be grittier and less magic using and less powerful magic, so chances are 1 over 3

Of course maintaining compatibility with 5e limits how far they can go in any direction. I am no longer convinced that maintaining this compatibility at all cost is a worthwhile exercise and not just an obstacle to a better game

 

[Remathilis]

So the answer is,"Too bad"? Conversation over, I guess.

There are lots of options if you don't want a Chromebook though. Macs, Windows, or if your really crazy compile your own Linux distro. But don't keep demanding Google make a Chromebook that can run high end gaming and apps like PS. Sometimes you gotta accept a Chromebook isn't going to be for you.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're missing the point.

Imagine if there was another classic D&D Class. A martial class based on Cowboys. In this universe, Gygax added a Cowboy class to 1st edition.
And the Cowboy was the core representation of a ranged weapon focused character.
AND the Cowboy, as well as being a warrior, gets to magically change its bullets into magic bullets. Magic bullets for the DMG. Basically infusions.
AND the Cowboy class has magic.

Got it so far?
Fast Forward to 2023.

opens arms
It's 2023. Nobody watches westerns anymore. It's not popular.
People like the concept of Cowboys but its not the most popular thing.
People also really like ranged characters with trick and skilled shots. However those are tied to the Cowboy.

But now its all stuck of a Cowboy class with limited trope appeal, has elements that doesn't fully fix many settings, difficulty growing into other tropes due to classic class features bolted onto it, and requires learning the weapons combat system, spell system, and magic item system to se and a spell list and magic bullet list to play.

No shocker it is the least played class.

That's the Druid problem.
Either
WOTC caters to the current 5e Druid playerbase and refine it. Then tell them that this is it as Druid has the smallest base it will treated like second class citizens or redhead stepchildren after the PHB.
OR
WOTC caters to a wider net of potential Druid players and broadens the class. Then tell them that the Druid is losing some of its flexibility or power in classes class features for accessibility and ability to branch into new concepts.
OR
WOTC breaks up the Druid concept into 3-5 classes 4th edition style.

Why do they need to tell druid players in your first option that this is it? Where did that even come from? Druids got more or less the same support as any other class throughout the life of 5e. There was a cool druid in Critical Role. There's a cool druid in the upcoming film. Why the heck would they tell people the class will now be treated like Iike a second class citizen?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I always lean towards a simple foundation, you can always add complexity on top (subclasses of varying complexity), so 1 or 3 for D&D

In general I would rather see D&D to be grittier and less magic using and less powerful magic, so chances are 1 over 3

Of course maintaining compatibility with 5e limits how far they can go in any direction. I am no longer convinced that maintaining this compatibility at all cost is a worthwhile exercise and not just an obstacle to a better game

I agree regarding compatibility. If only WotC was interested in making a better game and not just one more people will buy stuff for.

 

[Micah Sweet]

There are lots of options if you don't want a Chromebook though. Macs, Windows, or if your really crazy compile your own Linux distro. But don't keep demanding Google make a Chromebook that can run high end gaming and apps like PS. Sometimes you gotta accept a Chromebook isn't going to be for you.

I'm not demanding WotC make a Chromebook at all. I'd like them to at least make some decent apps I can use on my PC.

 

[Minigiant]

I, wouldn't say this at all? Because, there's one massive, immense place they are combined: World of Warcraft.

Gotta admit, WoW druids are a pretty powerful proof by example.

That's why I said rarely.
And the WOW Druid was inspired by the 3e Druid.

Also remember.
Doesn't WOW have a core Shaman class that stares the shares the burden of the spiritual and nature caster tropes? WOW Shamans hold more of the spirits and elements magic and lore side of the D&D Druid.

How many forms does the WOW Druid have? 4 Bear, Cat, Travel, and Moonkin.

 

[Micah Sweet]

That's why I said rarely.
And the WOW Druid was inspired by the 3e Druid.

Also remember.
Doesn't WOW have a core Shaman class that stares the shares the burden of the spiritual and nature caster tropes? WOW Shamans hold more of the spirits and elements magic and lore side of the D&D Druid.

How many forms does the WOW Druid have? 4 Bear, Cat, Travel, and Moonkin.

I wouldn't be averse to a shaman class.

 

[Minigiant]

Why do they need to tell druid players in your first option that this is it? Where did that even come from? Druids got more or less the same support as any other class throughout the life of 5e. There was a cool druid in Critical Role. There's a cool druid in the upcoming film. Why the heck would they tell people the class will now be treated like Iike a second class citizen?

Because quite frankly.

The 5e Druid is the worst designed of the 12 5e classes in terms of design for newcomers and for future releases.

The 5e Druid is the "I've been playing D&D for 5+ years" class.

No one would recommend it to a new player. It's a headache play it straight as a DM. It is full of eleements you wouldn't get why they exist until you've played D&D for a long time or are from a previous edition. It "requires" 2 books to fully play. And it is hard or clunky to expand narratively via subclasses or cocepts as you have to contend with both spellcasting and wildshape. And it put additional design restriction of designing new beasts.

 

[Emberashh]

Something I think is being a bit assumed here is that people aren't attracted to the Druid in concept. I don't see any particular evidence for that at all, particularly when put next to things like the Warlock, which is even less represented in popular media.

Im still thinking that if there is a significant gap in playrates thats resulting from people not being interested in the thematics, that its to with the Shapeshifting being emphasized.

And I can serve as my own example of that, given my favorite Druid sub is Circle of Stars, which is about as divorced from shapeshifting as it gets.

I think the overall real solution here is to make Shapeshifting its own class, and emphasize the Druid in another direction.