D&D General Did 5e 2024 Not meet the economic goals set, and if not, why not?

[SkidAce]

I’m really struggling to see why I wouldn’t. Given the low cost-benefit calculation.

Right now, I'm still in the "should I houserule the things I like from 2024 into 2014, or bring the things I like from 2014 into 2024"?

Its about even, leaning slightly towards keeping 2014 as the base. Then the cost of the new books (somewhat negligible to me) pushes it a bit further towards 2014.

edit: two groups, once a week each.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I've noticed that every edition seems to come in three waves:

1. The core. The bulk of the central ideas - the PHB
2. The Extensions. Xanathar's/Power source Power/the Complete series. Things designed with the same philosophy as the core but there (often with reason) wasn't space for
3. The Weirdness. Tasha's/Essentials/Magic of Incarnum/Bo9S. We've mined all the major expansions so it's time to get interesting and weird and see what we can actually do.

I'm always a fan of the weirdness but it always sells the worst because people happy with the original direction don't like it and people not happy with the original direction aren't interested.

And 2024's outlook appears to me not so good because with ten years of 5e it basically has to start in The Weird as we just need patches for the expansions.

It will be interesting to see if we can get some wierd going. I have not looked past core D&D, since I try not to buy if I will not get to run it but some of the third party might be exploring the weird.
One of the interesting things about third party D&D is to be compatible they are limited to subclasses, feats, items or magic mostly. They can invent subsystems in the gaps of core D&D (like travel, exploration and the like) but they are confined to the base class structure.

Books like Incarnum, Bo9S and the like changed the base classes in fundamental ways and were often powercreep.
I wonder if the structure of D&DBeyond is acting as a break or limiter on some directions that D&D could take? IS this going to change? If D&DBeyond get more flexible vis what it supports, will Wizards sell third party stuff that diverges from the core 5e?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Right now, I'm still in the "should I houserule the things I like from 2024 into 2014, or bring the things I like from 2014 into 2024"?

Its about even, leaning slightly towards keeping 2014 as the base. Then the cost of the new books (somewhat negligible to me) pushes it a bit further towards 2014.

edit: two groups, once a week each.

Not sure if you are looking for advice or just musing out loud. I think depends on are your potential changes additive or subtractive.

My advice would be to go in the direction with the least amount of subtraction.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Eberron and Forgotten Realms players books don’t strike me as weird. In fact they seem pretty base line and a good place to start. Yet I would say there is plenty of room to develop there.

But that's not what we are getting. We already have a 5e Eberron book. We're instead getting a 112 page game update - and we had 15 pages of art-free mechanics. This isn't a full setting book.

 

[Bae'zel]

Now that my Baldur’s Gate 3 hype-phase is over, I’m still very pleased with the 2024 books. My group is having a blast, even if a few characters are 2014 rules, everything works out well.

When the Forgotten Realms books come out this Fall, we’ll be diving in deep with rotating, GM, episodic campaign.

I can’t speak for the general sentiment out there, but we’re having fun actually playing and running the game.

If WotC died tomorrow I’d survive just fine though.

 

[DEFCON 1]

not really, those books were generally not selling as well to begin with, so at best you delayed a further decline, but the goal is to revitalize / grow sales

As determined by what? Not selling as well in comparison to...? What exactly are these metrics that sales of current products are supposed to be put up against?

 

[mamba]

As determined by what? Not selling as well in comparison to...? What exactly are these metrics that sales of current products are supposed to be put up against?

Bookscan sales, in comparsion to earlier adventures

Are D&D Sales Declining?

In all other RPGs and D&D editions, we see diminishing returns. Each follow-up supplement, adventure, or other product will sell fewer copies and have a shorter tail than the first ones. Is 5E D&D seeing declining sales?

alphastream.org

 

[Stormonu]

I think there are a few factors in play.

First, 5e 2014 benefitted from three external boosts: Stranger Things, Critical Role, and Covid. Covid is done and CR is moving on, and this is the last season of Stranger Things.

Second, many traditional markets dominated are becoming more fractured. A lot of folks still read the WSJ or NYT, but their dominance is lessened. Products like Shadowdark and Cosmere and Daggerheart are eating into 5e 2024 appeal.

Third, a lot of unforced errors by WOTC. OGL and Pinkerton scandals. Lackluster products. “Under-monetization”. VTT and AI statements. Layoffs that turner off long time consumers. VTT failure. Loss of recognized “stars” in Perkins and Crawford. Larian moving on from D&D.

All combined I think 2024 will limp along rather than enjoy the heights that 2014 achieved.

Very much this. In 2014, eyes were starting to turn towards D&D, it was showing up increasingly in many areas over the years (Sarah Connor Chronicles, Futurama, Stranger Things, The Gamers, etc.), movie stars were even talking about it and streaming live plays. Covid really turned things upside down - suddenly a lot of people had free time on their hands and it appears a lot turned to social games - board games, RPGs - to fill two needs at once, with something to do and a way to interact with others.

Basically, in 2024-25, the world is a much different place than then. A lot of the world has moved on and the iron was cooling by the time WotC struck with the new books. WotC's taken the plunge and they'll have to swim forward with the changes they made, there's no going back (well, they could do a New Coke reversal, but I don't think that's happening; too much pride, investment and lack of backlash).

To me, in the end it's not much of a big deal. Things change, the world moves on, old product adapts or dies and companies stand or fall, often over resistance to change, some outwardly silly choices in hindsight or plain dumb luck (or lack thereof). There's still plenty of 3PP producers to slake any 5E desires I have, and a 50 years of back catalog if I have a hankering for the Old Ways - which I'll admit I've had at least a desire for some B/X or 2E in the last few years. It's amazing D&D as a hobby has survived so long, but in truth at this point I could care less whether WotC carries the banner forward on or not. And a good portion of the time of late, I'd just rather they didn't.

 

[billd91]

I paused when I read the weird "checking political orientation before taking video maker seriously" aside - as if any take on D&D has to automatically be filtered through cultural or political ideology. But, moving on...

Are you serious? With all the jabs at wokeness with various publishers and products in the RPG industry? Of course, this is going to be something you might want to consider, particularly with highly critical clickbait or claims of "failure" by people on the internet. It might be ridiculous we have to do this, but it is what it is.

 

[mamba]

WotC's taken the plunge and they'll have to swim forward with the changes they made, there's no going back (well, they could do a New Coke reversal, but I don't think that's happening; too much pride, investment and lack of backlash).

if anything, they accelerate 6e, but there is no going back to 2014