D&D 5E Differentiating Arcane and Divine Magic.

[Fanaelialae]

I always like when the same spell was different level for clerics and wizards in olden editions. Light, for example, used to be a 1st-level spell for clerics, and a 2nd-level spell for wizards, IIRC. And the memory is a bit foggy, but I seem to recall some spell were reversible on one list, but not on the other... but I could be wrong on this.

Also, one of the major differences between arcane and divine magic was the number of spell levels. Divine casters only got spells up to 7th level, while arcane casters (well, wizards, as they were the only full arcane spellcasting class back then) got up to the 9th-level spells.

I do not care for this approach to differentiating magic. Light isn't worth a 2nd level spell slot, so unless you were completely out of other options, the end result was that no one took those overpriced spells. All it did was pad the spell list without adding anything of actual substance.

I found the different spell levels weird. I'd guess what they were going for was a partial caster, as clerics were reasonably competent in melee. However, it created issues once they started branching out into other options, like unarmored priests (cloistered clerics). It also had some odd world building implications - are the gods supposed to be weaker than an arch mage? (Unlikely.) Do they simply hoard their power? Why can't/don't deities grant their most devout emissaries magic on par with that of the greatest mages?

I much prefer divine spells going to 9th and all spells being at a fixed level based on what they are arguably worth. It's something I've wanted since the old days, but it always seemed too overwhelming a task to do it myself.

That said, I wouldn't mind it if spells worked differently for arcane and divine casters. For example, you could have a short paragraph in fireball that changes the damage type to radiant when cast by a divine caster. Differentiate the spells with little modifications that don't actually change the spell level. Admittedly, that ship has pretty much sailed; that sort of thing would have probably smacked too much of 4e's keywords for some people's tastes.

 

[Krachek]

With the diversity of domain Cleric pick some identity of a lot of other classes.
a Dm that want a more traditional role for cleric should restraint domain to life and war.

 

[DND_Reborn]

One thing I did in AD&D and I have considered for 5E is allowing divine casters (Cleric, Druid, and Paladin) to not have to prepare spells at all. You cast them at will as when you need them your deity, etc. grants them then. It worked well for AD&D and definitely made it feel different from Magic-Users.

 

[Minigiant]

The way I could see the difference between Divine and Arcane magic being streesed is in "dumb simple video game terms".

Divine Magic gives you buffs, debuffs, heals, radiant, necrotic, some utility spells and a few "plague" spells. Anything else must come from your domains.

Divine magic comes from deities. Deities grant spells to their clerics and followers. However dieties have dominion over certain aspects of reality and cannot grant power over domains they don't have dominions over. A fire god needs permission from the sea god to give a sea spell. Or might need the sea god to give the spell to them first. And deities don't like asking favor favors. The base cleric list is "the stuff Vulcan doesn't need to ask Neptune for"

Arcane magic feels like "all the programmed stuff you can do without needing a god, titan, or other ranked being to give you access to". With arcanists it's more about "what you can't do" than "what you can do". Each for of arcane magic has things it is "locked out" of. Healing, for example, is locked out of wizardry but not artifice, baridic magic, and some forms of sorcery.

Divine is addition
Arcane is subtraction

 

[Tonguez]

Personally Id take spell slots away from Clerics and in return boost up Channel Divinity as a set of thematic ‘Divine Boons’ that the Cleric gets from their diety including at will Domain Spells per level.

Also maybe allow the cleric to cast any spell as a Ritual

honestly though I havent thought much about it, so the mechanics of it may not work out

 

[dave2008]

The runaway thread on the new Psionics UA got me thinking about how could we differentiate arcane and divine Magic from each other more. Traditionally, divine Magic users "know" all their spells, and just choose from them each day. Arcane magic users have to learn their spells, either through their book like wizards or through level up like the sorcerer (Baldur's Gate's Bard, which I assume was like 2E's, learned from scrolls while 3 and 5Es bard learns like a sorcerer).

Psioncs fans want Psionics to be different, but how could we go about making divine Magic more different than arcane magic? How would you go about making it feel more spiritual?

Back in my 1e days I had the following distinction:

Divine Magic. The magic of the gods is divine magic. Mortal's could only use as a gift from the gods and it is typically accessed through prayers, etc. However, because it came from the gods, this type of magic could be used almost anywhere.

Arcane Magic. Originally there was no arcane magic. Then, one god discovered/invented arcane magic. However, this opened up the multiverse to the far realm (not what I called it then, but it is analogous) as this is the source of arcane magic. When this rift was opened many eldritch horrors came through and immediately went to war with the gods. In the end the gods won, pushed back the eldritch titans and closed the rift. However, in the Prime Material the gods imprisoned many eldritch titan within planets. These imprisoned titans leak arcane magic. It is this leaking magic that mortals use to cast arcane spells. So only on planets with an old one imprisoned can mortals use arcane magic.

 

[Fenris-77]

I've always wanted a system of increasing risk. There's no hard limit to how many times you can use your spells, but each time you face increasing risk. Levels of exhaustion, maybe? Then it all resets on a long rest.

This is an idea that I like quite a bit. Other games do this, more or less, so there are exemplars to look to. Generally, I think a sliding scale of exhaustion, to other conditions, to actual damage would work. In order for it to work though I think that spellcasting might need to involve a roll. Perhaps doing away with spell slots entirely might work. A caster has X spells at various levels, which can be cast as many times as he likes, but he needs to roll arcana (or whatever) to cast them. DC rise with spell level, and failure has consequences.

 

[Tonguez]

This is an idea that I like quite a bit. Other games do this, more or less, so there are exemplars to look to. Generally, I think a sliding scale of exhaustion, to other conditions, to actual damage would work. In order for it to work though I think that spellcasting might need to involve a roll. Perhaps doing away with spell slots entirely might work. A caster has X spells at various levels, which can be cast as many times as he likes, but he needs to roll arcana (or whatever) to cast them. DC rise with spell level, and failure has consequences.

I like skill based magic, but I think its more appropriate for Arcan e casters who have a chance of failing due to getting their arcane formulae wrong or something.

Divine Powers come from the gods and so shouldnt really be ‘failing’ (though the diety might choose to withold it)

 

[dave2008]

Divine Powers come from the gods and so shouldnt really be ‘failing’ (though the diety might choose to withold it)

Divine magic could "fail" because you lack faith or resolve or you recited the prayer to invoke the gods power incorrectly. I still think there is room for divine magic to fail. However, it might be interesting if there was difference. Maybe prayers take longer to cast, so if you attempt one as an action (instead of a ritual), there is a chance of getting it wrong?

 

[Fenris-77]

I like skill based magic, but I think its more appropriate for Arcan e casters who have a chance of failing due to getting their arcane formulae wrong or something.

Divine Powers come from the gods and so shouldnt really be ‘failing’ (though the diety might choose to withold it)

This is where differentiation through mechanics really shines. Arcane casting would feel different when the mechanics for casting it and the potential consequences for doing so are actually different. The effects could be very similar in some cases to divine casting and it would still feel very different. Just spitballing:

Arcane uses a skill roll with exhaustion as above. So pick a spell and attempt to cast it.

Divine magic could ask the deity for X power (the roll) and then use that power to do X from a list of effects (spells)

In both cases the use of a ritual could improve the chances of success and/or power granted, essential trading time for effect.

Anyway, building the magic system around different mechanics for casting would result in the differentiation some people want.