(Discussion) General Part III

[Jack Haggerty]

The feat, though, is what I'm talking about. And what about non-gnomes and non-half-orcs getting it?

You guys could also check Masters of the Wild for another take on the Scent feat... I believe the requirements are either the ability to shapechape into an animal with scent, or possessing an animal companion with scent, I forget which.

 

[Thels]

Eschew Materials works for Clerics. I don't see why Eschew Focus wouldn't. And do we really want multiclass spellcasters to have to burn 2 feats at it?

The only question is, would it also affect the Divine Focus (Holy Symbol/Mistletoe). I'd say yes, to make the feat any worthwhile. There's already a bunch of spells that don't need Divine Focus, and you still need it to memorize your spells in the morning, so you still need your symbol.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

you still need it to memorize your spells in the morning, so you still need your symbol.

why should you need a symbol, exactly? I perfer godless clerics, who may or may not have a particular symbol they use. Certainly, I don't see the real point of requiring a cleric to carry a concrete representation of their god around... if they need to meditate on such a thing, they can draw it in the campfire ashes every morning...

Just my take, I don't like it when the rules enforce a particular flavor (that a religious caster will automaticly have and carry a symbol of faith) for no good reason.

Kahuna burger

 

[dpdx]

[Apparently the cleric thing is still a bone of contention among the thread participants, even if it isn't for Hof. So I'm going to continue to argue.]

One problem I have with that is that without a deity (and the representation inferred by possessing that deity's holy symbol), the cleric is herself the inspiration for her spells, and that seems awfully mun-, er, overpowered to me, especially at starting levels. That works great for arcanes, especially sorcerers, but without a pantheon, there is no well for divine magic, unless your PC is herself a Goddess, and then, what's the point of having other party members?

Any of the other established campaign worlds (Greyhawk, Realms, etc.) have a pantheon. I don't think it works for LEW to have a pantheon composed of the PCs from certain LEW participants.

The one example I can find of a cleric who didn't have a deity is Kellus in Destan's Story Hour, and even then: his divine magic was limited until he found Helm again, suggesting that Helm never really left him in the first place. I'd be tempted to ask Destan what he thinks of an Eschew Divine Focus feat for clerics, since he's actually managed that situation.

Also, the divine focus isn't just flavor. If you're gripping your holy symbol to turn undead, for example, you can't also have your weapon or shield in hand to fight them or fend them off. It costs 1 gold for a wooden one, 25 for a silver one, and they work equally, according to the 3.5 PHB (pg. 130). Even clerics without a deity use the sun symbol (also pg. 130).

It's often the only component you need to cast a spell if you're a cleric, while wizards have to spend time procuring and putting together eye of newt and nightshade oil, and as Thels pointed out, in some cases you don't even need that!

IMHO, if your cleric can't whittle together a holy symbol with a dagger and a branch of elm, and at least roleplay the pretense of focusing positive energy through a holy symbol, then she's really just a girl with a mace, or whatever.

 

[Thomas Hobbes]

I don't think being able to cast a handful of 1st level spells counts as "godlike"- even if the theoretical origin of your spells is yourself, you're still only a 1st-level character, and gain power just like everyone else. It would be quite an interesting character arc, after all, to aspire to Godhood! (Note: Play planetouched character like that sometime.)

As for the balance issue (which seems to be a matter of having a hand free), perhaps that could be a stipulation of the feat- in order to cast spells with DF, or turn undead, you have to have a hand free ("Back, back!" you yell at the undead, except in stead of a holy symbol you simply have an open palm).

So basically, I think that (if such a feat required that you have a hand free, eliminating game balance issues) this is mostly a flavor issue: whether someone can operate not only without a diety, but without worshipping an abstract source of power (as we allow clerics to do in LEW). I think it's cool, but obviously opinions vary.

 

[Thels]

I think you should be permitted to cast spells without requiring a free hand after you burned 2 feats, gamebalance wise.

Perhaps an agreement would be that the cleric still needs his holy symbol on him, but not neccesarily held in his hand.

 

[Sparky]

Three questions

I'm working on a character and need to know the following (can't find this in the SRD)

1) What is the barbarian's starting gold?

2) What is the capacity of a backpack?

3) A measly, little wooden flute weighs 3lbs?! Can we revise that down?


Thanks in advance for your replies.

 

[GPEKO]

1) 4d4 x 10 gp so maximum is 120 gp.
2) 1 cubic feet (but I wouldn't worry to much about that)
3) I guess that weight is more for mandolins and lutes but I don't have any authority here.

Voilà !

 

[Macbeth]

1) 4d4 x 10 gp so maximum is 120 gp.
2) 1 cubic feet (but I wouldn't worry to much about that)
3) I guess that weight is more for mandolins and lutes but I don't have any authority here.

Voilà !

Yep, I think thats all right, sorry I couldn't answer, I was in a lab. As for the flute, my instinct would be to cut it down, perhaps to 1lb or 1/2 lb. Either way, we need to wait for the other judges to really decide on any rules changes.

 

[Sparky]

1) 4d4 x 10 gp so maximum is 120 gp.
2) 1 cubic feet (but I wouldn't worry to much about that)
3) I guess that weight is more for mandolins and lutes but I don't have any authority here.

Voilà !

Thanks GPEKO and Macbeth. But... aren't we supposed to start with max gold? 4d4 x 10 would be 160, no? Or do we get 75% of max... or is that HP?