D&D 5E Do you find Fantasy Grounds just too much of an investment?

[leonardoraele]

Hey guys. I don't know Fantasy Grounds, but I play on roll20.net, which is a free rpg platform. It has it's own problems, but works well for my purposes and is free for DM and players.

So, can someone that knows both platforms point out the pros and cons of both? Whats the differences between them? Why choose Fantasy Grounds?

 

[LordEntrails]

Drag and Drop. Can you elaborate? The price for the books isn't competing with FG. It's the price for the miniatures and paints for the live game that compete with FG. That said, I also subbed to roll20. I'm aiming for current campaigns to be done when it ends (around Feb) and was thinking of checking it out.

Nylafs linked video shows how drag & drop works with character creation. Basically what I'm referring to is you simply select and drag the feature, ability, inventory item (weapon) etc from the library (i.e. the PHB etc) and drop it on your character sheet. Same philosophy when you go and build an encounter, you drag the creature from the MM list and drop it on the encounter. Enter number of those creatures you want, name the encounter and such.

As for the the earlier video questions/comments... We wouldn't need video if we were all face-to-face. We use video when we are playing online. i.e. typically we have 2-3 people in 2-3 different locations. An overview camera for each location helps. One of the important things it does; keeps people involved; I've found that when people are only responsible via chat, they try to do other things and not pay attention to the game. i.e. watch tv, take care of kids, etc

 

[LordEntrails]

[MENTION=6804468]leonardoraele[/MENTION]
I've seen a few good comparisons from people have used both, but I'm not sure what those links are. Try the Roll20 and FG forums. Also maybe some others will be able to direct you to them.

Here's what I've found from my research and the "consolidated" opinions I've built from what I've read. (Note, I have not used anything but FG, but I did about 20 hours of research back about April 2015 before deciding.) Also, here's my review of FG; http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6750807

Though Roll20 is "free", it really isn't. Not if you want any of what it considers advanced options and what FG and the other "paid" apps consider core or basic functionality.

I've heard multiple users of both FG & R20 comment that from a player perspective, they are very similar, though maybe R20 is easier to use. But, from a GM perspective, FG is much easier to use for creating campaigns and preparing for game sessions.

If you want to do more with FG or R20, both have tools to do so. Macros in R20, xml coding in FG. For FG, no coding is needed to play or GM. It's only if you want to do something like change the interface icons, add a second chat window, make an integrated database extension for all the shops and businesses in your campaign (which a community developer has done and has published for free use).

Most complaints about FG come in three forms:

1) Cost:
- comparing the free R20 membership versus the FG license. Not a valid comparison because you are not comparing even remotely similar functions.
- complaints about the cost of the license 5E material. Which is completely optional, and really missing the point. If you want to load in your 5E books yourself, their is a community developed tool that helps you bulk load your own PDFs into FG with the full FG drag & drop type of functionality. Also note that all the mechanics of numerous rule systems (including 3, 3.5, 4 & 5E) are all included free with the base license. And, as of this month, FG now has license to include for free the 5E basic rules from WotC. So you actually get the basic rules for 5E and not just the game mechanics.
- Both R20 and FG are about $10/month if you want a subscription model and competitive features

2) Fog of War / Dynamic Lighting:
- FG uses a simple mask over images that the GM removes in parts (either with rectangles or freehand shapes)
- R20 has the ability for defining lighting sources and obstacles so that the map reveals itself as the light sources (players) move about

3) Mapping tools. FG has very limited tools for marking up maps. They work OK during play, but are bad if you are for some reason trying to actually make a map. You will need to make your maps in another application and just use them in FG for combat (if you even use maps). Do note, that FG includes 40+ generic maps for free for when you need a non-specific battle map such as an outdoor location, a city street or a cave passage.


Some of what drove me to FG:

1) 5E licensed material. I'm at a point in life where my time is worth money to me. I would rather pay for the licensed material than spend the time either creating my own or inputting information (feats, items, etc) when I need/want them.

2) Longevity. FG has been around and active for many years. It is unlikely that the program or company (SmiteWorks) is likely to go under or otherwise become obsolete in the next 5 years.

3) Active development/enhancements/support & user community. FG's community has amazed me from the start. People are incredibly helpful. Tech support is thorough and responsive. FG continues to roll out new functions and is making major long term platform investments (move to Unity, Table Top Connect merger...)

4) Locally installed application. FG is a piece of software that is downloaded, installed and run on my hardware. This means I do not have to be online. This means that if FG goes out of business, I have the software and all my content forever. It means I don't have to worry if they get hacked or targeted by a DOS attack. It means I don't have to worry about their hardware performance.

 

[Nylanfs]

5) You data is on your hard drive and not in the "cloud".

Although IF you are using the Ultimate License you can be affected by a DDoS affect on Smiteworks servers because when a demo user connects to your client checks to Smiteworks server to confirm that your license is an Ultimate.

 

[leonardoraele]

[MENTION=6804070]LordEntrails[/MENTION]
Thank you for the answer. The coolest feature of roll20 is the Dynamic Light that you described. Really, I and my players love it. But it is a paid feature. Although roll20 does have the Fog of War feature (free), in which the GM manually reveals the map in parts, just like you described FG does.

Roll20 works fine for free, really. Dynamic Light is the main reason you would want to pay the subscription.
As all the campaign content is hosted in the cloud, storage is another issue. Your campaign can last for months using a free account, but depending on how much maps, handouts, etc. you upload, you eventually will have to pay a subscription to allow more storage space.

About creating maps, roll20 offers map creating tools you can use to build maps. However, the tool ins't much refined and there are very few resources to use. Although it works (I have created a lot of maps using it), you will most likely want to create your maps using a third party app and upload it to roll20 anyways. But you can use the uploaded map as a base and combine it with roll20 tools to add objects, characters, and other details and effects; and this approach works really well.
The real problem of the map cration tools of roll20 is the lack of base resources to work on. There isn't a "basic resource pack" you can use. You rely only on your own custom resources (maps, tokens, etc.) and on some few free files roll20 itself finds in the web for you. (there's a "search in the web" option) Actually, there is the marketplace where you can buy third party packs to use in your campaign, but they are just too expensive to use in a home game so... Meh, just ignore the marketplace...

Another problem of roll20 is that it doesn't offers an option to export your character sheets to, for instance, a pdf. If you want to do so, you need to copy the info manually. Now and then they develop a new feature, but in general the development team is very very slow to deliver new features or changes. They are active on the forum, however.

In general, I can point many minor issues of roll20, but it is practical (no need to download anything to play, only to click a link) and works very well and is easy to use for both players and DM. It offers all features you would want from a tabletop platform: grid for battles (both square and hexagon), turn order control, dice rolls, character sheet manager, handouts, custom decks of cards, rollable tables, jukebox (very nice!), DM layer (where you put tokens and annotations that the players can't see until you reveal them; or never at all) and video/audio transference. (although you will most likely use team speak, hangouts or skype for better audio and video quality) Also, the 3d dice simulation is very cool.

So this is it. It wasn't my intention, but I ended up making a review of the platform haha Comparing my experience in roll20 with your review, I really didn't find much reasons to use neither over the other.

 

[Lightfoot]

I am in the process of switching over from Roll20 to Fantasy Grounds. I am finishing up LMoP in Roll20 and I spent a lot of time adding the maps and NPCs. I'm working on a new module and shuddered at the thought of doing it all again.

So far I'm half way through creating the story in Fantasy Grounds. I pay for the $9.99 month license so all my players can play for free and (it sucked) bought the PHB Deluxe(already own the hardback) to share with the players.

I'll buy the Monster Manuel in FG if my players like it as much as they seem to. I backed Roll20 when it was a Kickstarter but it just has not advanced or matured like I hoped it would. Just from watching the YouTube videos my players are excited about FG and the immersive atmosphere of the VTT. Roll20 was great and felt like an old school session of having dice, books and paper all over a table, but in reality there is too much overhead for the DM.