Do you find the Mystic Theurge overpowered?

[officeronin]

Comparing this to the Arcanist (Mongoose's Big Book 'O PrCs, whatever it's called), which was a similar idea, this is far more potent. I'd add a few restrictions:

1. Since Druids would get screwed with this PrC (by losing wildshape), I'd just bar them by requiring that the divine caster have the magic domain. This tones down the cleric (since the benefits of the magic domain disappear when you are also a sor/wiz), and it's also flavor. I suppose you could just require either Magic domain or wildshape...

2. I'd add a throw-away feat selection -- like Skill Focus: Craft -- Bookbinding. You know -- something to make the player feel the pain of trying to qualify.

At higher levels, you are taking hits due to your lowered caster level. Is this enough?

If not, you could "break convention" by saying that, in this case, the rise in wizard caster level does not give the "two free spells" benefit -- the association of the Mystics would offer them, but the PC still has to pay for their writing.

I'd still take the PrC, and it would alleviate some of the "uber-ness".

OfficeRonin

 

[herald]

I gotta say. I like the class. I have to wonder what they would have to do to make this work in E-tools.

Mwhahahahahahaha

 

[Chun-tzu]

I'd also like to see a Druid Friendly version. Swap the Knowledge(Religion) for Knowledge (Nature) and you've got an awesome combo...

A Druid 3/Wizard 3 won't have a hard time qualifying for this PrC. However, he/she will have to get all the required Knowledge ranks using Wizard skill points.

 

[coyote6]

The poll is missing the option I wanted: "Answer hazy, try again later, after we see the 3.5e wizard, cleric, etc."

 

[MerakSpielman]

I gotta say. I like the class. I have to wonder what they would have to do to make this work in E-tools.

Mwhahahahahahaha

I have a feeling that the plans for the release of 3.5 were what made WoTC so very very upset at the delays in E-tools being produced. I mean, for those of us who bought it, we don't even get to use it for a year before the entire rules system is updated. They had hoped to sell and updated it and sell it again several times before the date that it finally hit the shelves - and then it was so full of bugs that few people really wanted it anyway.

 

[Murrdox]

This is basically a prestige class that lets a wizard get the benefits of multiclassing as a cleric, but still advance as a wizard. I don't see why a cleric would take this, they lose hit dice, BAB, stop wearing armor if they want to cast their arcane spells, etc...

But for a wizard who wants to be able to cast divine spells... this class is pretty sick. You're going to SUCK as a caster between levels 4-6.. until you hit 7 and start advancing as both... but you're going to have SO many spells per day from both lists, and a wizard won't care that he stops getting his turning abilities and such.

Looking at it again... I guess it really isn't THAT overpowered. a 7th level wizard or cleric would probably wipe the floor with a wiz3/clc3/Theurge1. 4th level spells vs 2nd? Sure you have a LOT of those second level spells... but a higher caster level will wipe you out.

You'd be the party's best friend though... lots of enchancement, healing, and combat spells. Granted they'd all be low level, but hey.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

I'm ok with it, it makes a sucky multiclass combo useable. Maybe a little too good, but if so just barely. Clerics give up a lot but clerics are overpowered so its no surprise. Wizards give up a few feats which hurts and a few spell levels which hurts, and they gain fantastic elrci spellcasting power, though not nearly as good as the straight cleric. 3 levels means a lot.

 

[Goobermunch]

I've posted this elsewhere, but I think the points are valid, so I'll share them here.

I voted in the Weak category, and based on this analysis, I think that's a fair assessment.

Please excuse my rambliness. I've got a headcold from hell and NyQuil is my lord and savior.

That said, I've been reading a lot of complaining about the Mystic Theurge. I've also seen a number of analyses comparing the MT to a high level caster.

I'm going to suggest a different analysis. I think the MT is under powered. I say this, because I can get all of the benefits (and more) with a single feat. That feat of course, is leadership.

Let's start with the big downside of your MT: you combine the spellcasting power of two classes with one set of hitpoints and one physical location. Anything that takes you out deprives your party of all of your goodness.

At 7th level, when you can first take this class, you've got all the juice of a 4th level wizard and a 4th level cleric.

At 7th level, I've had leadership for a level and can have a cohort of up to 6th level. This means that my 7th level sorceror can bring his friendly 6th level cleric along with him.

Advantage: Leadership.

At 12th level, you're casting as a 9th level cleric and a 9th level wizard.

I'm casting as a 12th level sorceror and my cleric pal is still cruising along one level behind me . . . with all his unadulterated cleric hitpoints and BAB intact.

At 16th level, you're casting as 13th level cleric and a 13th level wizard. At best, you're getting two spells off each round.

At 16th level, I'm a brutishly powerful 16th level sorceror. My cleric friend is respectably 15th level. We're casting between 2-4 spells each round. That is, of course, assuming my cleric friend isn't an elven archer to boot.

Now, hey, wait a minute . . . you're saying. My MT can take leadership too. At 16th level, I can bring a 15th level caster along with me.

To which your party should respond . . . sure, but then, why are we dragging you along . . . we'll just hire the 15th level caster and convince him to take a cohort! And even then, your party is ahead of the game.

Viewed in this light, I really don't think the MT is all that great!

--G

 

[Psion]

Mildly overpowered at high levels.

I have always felt that multiclass spellcasters take a big hit. But is a whole class worth of additional spells worth a spell level? Perhaps debatable, but I think so.

At low to mid level, it's pretty in line, perhaps even a little weak.

(At all levels, it's sort of boring...)

 

[Enkhidu]

...I'm going to suggest a different analysis. I think the MT is under powered. I say this, because I can get all of the benefits (and more) with a single feat. That feat of course, is leadership...

Your proofs are very compelling: MT is less powerful than Leadership. But I'd say that Leadership is more powerful than nearly any single character combo - having a buddy along is almost always better than going it alone.