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Doctor Who (2020) - spoilers!

So the thing im about to mention isnt supposed to be political. Just prefacing with that. Its a major item in the works (if the rumor is true). A major spoiler. But also one that from a business perspective worries me. Because i think it will be highly unpopular. Shows need popularity like we need air. Without it they WILL suffocate.

There is a rumor with a fair bit of weight behind it that a major retcon is in the works to make it such that there was in fact actually a single incarnation of the doctor prior to what weve always thought was the first one. If its true the first doctor will in fact actually have been a female.

Again. Still not getting political.

My question is, regardless of whether you think this would be a cool idea or not, does anyone else else think that just might kill the show? By "kill" i dont mean "make bad". By "kill" i mean cause fan drop off to the point the show is deemed unprofitable.

A third time. NOT POLITICAL. Its business savvy concern. And also just a really big potential spoiler.
 

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Mallus

Hero
My question is, regardless of whether you think this would be a cool idea or not, does anyone else else think that just might kill the show? By "kill" i dont mean "make bad". By "kill" i mean cause fan drop off to the point the show is deemed unprofitable.
Would it kill the show? No. Or at least I seriously doubt it.

Will the show end soon? Probably not. But maybe?

The salient thing is we're now in the 15th(?) year of the Doctor Who revival, and eventually production will cease until the show is resurrected again. When you consider how much the business, audience, and culture has changed since 2005, whatever else you might think about the recent direction & changes on the show, Doctor Who's second act has been a smashing success, and the answer to why it ends when it ends is ultimately going to be: time.

(as for 'retconning' the Doctor's origin, given how the Doctor's story has been added to over time -- pop quiz: in what season, err, series was their home planet/species invented? -- I don't think that's ever the proper term for developments to the character)
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
1. I didn't see any definitive link between The Timeless Child and The Doctor, just the Master's say-so.
2. Were there Brain of Morbius stills? I was thinking of that episode, but didn't back up to step through frame-by-frame. If so, group them with Doctor Ruth, but still no definitive ties to The Timeless Child.
3. It's awfully soon to be invalidating The Time of the Doctor.
4. Susan? Clara? I don't think Chibnall has any respect for the established history of the show.

They were Brain of Morbius flashbacks and thats something I really like about the episode. While Chibnall may be upsetting some viewers of the new run, the fact that he has made references back to the old Doctors is just brilliant imho.
The former lives have been referenced a number of times, notably in Brain of Morbius but also through Sylvester McCoys run where he intimates that he was more than just another Time Lord and that he was there at the beginning alongside Omega and Rassilon. It also confirms that the Time Lords are elitist gits who elevated themselves above their Shabogan peers and named themselves Lords of Galifrey and on that point is Tecteun = Omega?

Anyway I liked it and I like the new mystery of Doctor Who? Whittaker has had a fine run as the Doctor and to compare her to Colin Baker is just stupid. Yeah Doctor Ruth was a bit bland but Sacha Dawhans Master was captivating.


(as for 'retconning' the Doctor's origin, given how the Doctor's story has been added to over time -- pop quiz: in what season, err, series was their home planet/species invented? -- I don't think that's ever the proper term for developments to the character)

Troughton era introduces the Time Lords but their home planet isnt named
Its was during the Pertwee era that he mentions the name Galifrey when he first meets Sarah Jane (so season 11).
 
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Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
@Son of the Serpent, would you and your seven warnings for anti-inclusive content care to PM me and explain why you "liked" the statement "I guess inclusive means no straight white men allowed. Screw your and your forum"? Am I to assume you share this position?
 


MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I thought Whitaker did a good job as the Doctor, especially in this season. I really liked Graham as a companion and Yaz is fine. I find Ryan weak and forgettable, just have a hard time caring about his character. My main gripe is that I just didn't find most of the shows in the past two seasons very good. I did, however, like the last three episode of season 12.
 

@Son of the Serpent, would you and your seven warnings for anti-inclusive content care to PM me and explain why you "liked" the statement "I guess inclusive means no straight white men allowed. Screw your and your forum"? Am I to assume you share this position?
So...ive actually pm'd you before and i suspect you may not recieve notification when i do so for reasons not established. I would not respond to red text normally in a thread, pinging you (ive realized since the last time i ping'd umbran, i think, thats incorrect) but since im not sure you know i pm'd you thats the only reason im responding in thread. As a courtesy to let you know i pm'd you just a bit ago. I dont respond to mod messages in thread typically anymore. Only doing it with you because im not sure you know i pm'd you. Ok. Thats all i was gonna say. Just trying to let you know.
 


Nagol

Unimportant
I thought Whitaker did a good job as the Doctor, especially in this season. I really liked Graham as a companion and Yaz is fine. I find Ryan weak and forgettable, just have a hard time caring about his character. My main gripe is that I just didn't find most of the shows in the past two seasons very good. I did, however, like the last three episode of season 12.

I really like Whittaker in the role. I think Yaz could be a good companion if given more screen time. I have little to no interest in the other two and their relationship. I also think each character is getting starved for screen time by all the others.

I think there were some problematic changes to the role of the Doctor (specifically last season where the Doctor's knowledge and expertise became unreliable -- it's not that the Doctor didn't know something it's that the Doctor knew stuff that was wildly incorrect) and to how the Doctor and crew relate to their environment (all of them wandering around in 21st century clothing in King James' time during a witch scare and absolutely no one commented. Really? The companions used to at least pretend to dress appropriately).
 


MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Yes. Capaldi could have been a great Doctor if the writing were better. I think Whitaker is making doing her best to polish a turd. The last few episodes show how going she can be given better stories.

Problems not Jodie and co but the writing. It went downhill late Matt Smith and fell off a cliff with Capaldi and never recovered. Wife pulled the plug 2 episodes into last season but had been considering it for a while.

New Who peaked a decade ago? Doesn't matter who the Doctor is if the writings bad.
 


MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I really like Whittaker in the role. I think Yaz could be a good companion if given more screen time. I have little to no interest in the other two and their relationship. I also think each character is getting starved for screen time by all the others.

Agree regarding Yaz. Graham could have been one of the best and most memorable companions if the focused on the loss of his wife and how he brings a mature and thoughtful perspective the craziness surrounding what companions of the doctor are subjected to. Ryan feels shoehorned in. I appreciate what they are trying to do, but it is too much. Ryan may be a good actor, I don't think I've seen him in anything else, but I find the side stories surrounding his personal life tiresome.

I think it may be because he is the most needy of the characters but there isn't the screen time to develop it properly. He might work better as a companion if he was the only companion. Then the stories of him dealing with his relationships with his adoptive and biological fathers, and with his friends, could be more impactful.

Not of the actors are terrible and Whitaker and Walsh are both very good in my opinion. There is just too much shoehorned in to let them develop their characters properly.
 

Nagol

Unimportant
Problems not Jodie and co but the writing. It went downhill late Matt Smith and fell off a cliff with Capaldi and never recovered. Wife pulled the plug 2 episodes into last season but had been considering it for a while.

New Who peaked a decade ago? Doesn't matter who the Doctor is if the writings bad.
I agree about the writing trajectory. I think it is interesting that the writing stayed terrible under Whittaker, but changed how it was terrible. Moffat as showrunner seemed to be aiming for a much younger (pre-teen probably) demographic with little thought to plausibility or sense and a lot of eye-rolling moments. Chibnall instead attempts to create a more shallow experience (if you had told me Doctor Who could get more shallow a few years ago I would have laughed and laughed ).
 


BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
It was interesting how Clara went from one of my favorite companions when paired with Smith to one of my least favorite with Capaldi even though I loved Capaldi.

I do think that's indicative of the writing taking a shift for the worse.
 


BookBarbarian

Expert Long Rester
I was never keen on her.
I thought she was intelligent, capable, positive, and (my favorite) not interesting in dating the Doctor. Then suddenly she was just a downer. Negative and whiny in practically all scenarios. Bill was a breath of fresh air after that.
 

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