Does anyone else have a problem with D20 missile?

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The DragonStar settings provides the Feat "Pressing Attack".
Ranged Weapons are the primary used weapon, and so melee fighters can be in serious trouble. With Pressing Attack, a melee fighter can - once per round - make a 5 foot step when an enemy adjacent to him tries to make his own 5 foot step.

Oh, and an archer can add his Strength Modifier to Bows - but only up to +4. While a melee fighter can add up the 1.5 x STR Modifier, a value that can easily go above +4.

And if you have a magic bow, changes are not to bad that your enemy will have a magic weapon... (And if he doesn`t, they will simply rip you of the standard way )

And you don`t gain more attacks than with a melee weapon...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[IceBear]

In the good old days of Basic D&D you couldn't use missle weapons at anyone within melee range (which is what I think they did in the 1st printing of D20 Star Wars too).

I personally don't have an issue (but I think this depends on how you want your game to be - more realistic or like Legolas in LotR). I would use readied actions to either trip, disarm or sunder the bow. I also don't require my players to explictedly state that they will take a 5ft step - I allow them to take a 5ft step if needed as part of their partial action.

IceBear

 

[IceBear]

Why not ready actions?
As in 'If he tries to attack me with any weapon, I will attack him first, 5' stepping if necessary'.
This covers all bases.
If he switches to melee and tries to attack you, you get the attack.
If he 5' steps back and tries to shoot you, you 5' step, attack him and then attack him again if he still tries to shoot you.

And then, as mentioned, there's the problem of not threatening an area, reach weapons, sundering, disarming, grappling, having a worse AC and not having access to the melee feats (which are probably better than the missile weapon feats for a straight hacking match).

And remember that the attack from the AoO doesn't have to be an attack but could be a trip or grapple too. Thus, the melee fighter would step up smack you with his sword and then put you on your back nullifying any attacks you might have. I'd switch back to melee

One point though, I thought that there was some discussion in the past as to whether or not if you readied an attack against a spellcaster casting a spell as to whether or not you still got the AoO as both sort of happen at the same time.

IceBear

 

[hong]

Not that this has anything to do with D&D, but IIRC Musashi wrote that the maximum usable range you could get out of a bow was about 50-100 feet. More than that, and the target could just see the arrow coming and get out of the way. (Of course, this only applies to single aimed shots against individual targets, and assumes the target is aware of the shot.)

 

[Lord Ben]

Wouldn't you use the rules for striking an object in their hand if they had a bow instead of the rules for normally sundering an object?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I am not sure. I had to reread the rules, but considering the fact that you can`t wield a longsword like a melee weapon to avoid having it destroyed, this might make sense.

The reason why it was that way in Starwars D20 was because they didn`t use Attack of Oppertunities then...

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

According to the Sage, that is correct (it even makes sense too). Since the bow is not a melee weapon, its holder is not entitled to the opposed attack roll in order to avoid the sunder attempt.

As I expressed the likely sequence of events to my players, at high or low levels, the most likely result of a combat between a melee fighter and an archer (assuming close range, no intervening obstacles or allies, and a similar equipment level) is:
1. Sundered bow
2. Sundered archer

Wouldn't you use the rules for striking an object in their hand if they had a bow instead of the rules for normally sundering an object?

 

[Conaill]

Since the bow is not a melee weapon, its holder is not entitled to the opposed attack roll in order to avoid the sunder attempt.

True, but you might want to allow the archer an opposed attack roll at a -4, treating the bow as an improvised melee weapon.

 

[mikebr99]

True, but you might want to allow the archer an opposed attack roll at a -4, treating the bow as an improvised melee weapon.

"Oh... a Pointy stick eh??? What, fresh fruit not good enough for ya???"

Wait... was that out loud?

Remember in 2e... the Elf book... there was a special bow that could also be used as a melee weapon. Every other one was completely useless.

But the improvised melee weapon thingy sounds good.

 

[shurai]

One important thing to remember is that the default scenario in which missile weapons are supposed to behave themselves is when a guy with mediocre armor is charging a dude with a longbow, and both of them have maybe five to ten hit points. In this case, longbows as the PHB defines them are a great weapon!

Think 1st level warriors with swords or spears charging across a battlefield at a bunch of 1st level warriors with bows.

-S