Does Multiple Death Knell Stack?

[Alchemist]

If anybody has a page number in the rules or the SRD, please point it out.

I'd love to say that Death Knell doesn't stack, but I can't find anything in the rules to prevent it from stacking since the bonuses are unnamed.

...Except that it's already been pointed out that effects with a duration don't stack. You can't cast multiple hastes for many extra actions each round, you can't Bull's Strength multiple times for a massive strength bonus, so why would Death Knell act any differently?

See p.171-172 pf the PhB, under 'Combining Magical Effects', specifically 'Stacking Effects'. Unnamed bonuses do stack with anything and themselves, except that spells don't stack with themselves.

Edited to correct errors.

 

[Endur]

The problem is that the rule on 171-172 doesn't use examples that support the rule. They chose Bless and Haste as examples. Bless doesn't stack because multiple morale bonuses do not stack. Haste does not stack because the spell description explicitly says it does not. Furthermore the rule on p.171-172 does not say that the same spell does not stack, it says that the same spell "usually do not stack with themselves."

Since Death Knell does not say that it does not stack, and its bonuses are untyped, I think it stacks. Although I quite agree that this is an unusual spell, one of the only few that I can think of that stack with themselves.

...Except that it's already been pointed out that effects with a duration don't stack. You can't cast multiple hastes for many extra actions each round, you can't Bull's Strength multiple times for a massive strength bonus, so why would Death Knell act any differently?

See p.171-172 pf the PhB, under 'Combining Magical Effects', specifically 'Stacking Effects'. Unnamed bonuses do stack with anything and themselves, except that spells don't stack with themselves.

Edited to correct errors.

 

[Alchemist]

The problem is that the rule on 171-172 doesn't use examples that support the rule. They chose Bless and Haste as examples. Bless doesn't stack because multiple morale bonuses do not stack. Haste does not stack because the spell description explicitly says it does not. Furthermore the rule on p.171-172 does not say that the same spell does not stack, it says that the same spell "usually do not stack with themselves."

Since Death Knell does not say that it does not stack, and its bonuses are untyped, I think it stacks. Although I quite agree that this is an unusual spell, one of the only few that I can think of that stack with themselves.

I think one is safer (and following an interpretation more likely in line with what was intended by the designers) assuming the rules apply unless a spell specifically overrides them, mentioning it stacks with itself, not vice versa. Play as you like, of course.

 

[Alchemist]

I'll certainly concede the strength bonus as stacking, that much is clear. The bonus to effective caster level is not so clear in my mind as being stackable.

 

[Norfleet]

If it were stackable, somebody would certainly abuse it using a large number of mortally wounded rats.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think I disagree. I note that the MM descriptions of Ability Drain and Energy Drain talk about monsters getting 5 temporary hp for "each attack," and the context makes it seem that the temporary hp are stacking in those cases, so I'd have Vampiric Touch hp stack as well.

From the SRD:

A creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative level it bestows (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect).

You gain temporary hit points equal to the damage you deal.

Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.

The paragraph about Temporary Hp could have been better, however...

 

[allenw]

So, what conclusions do you you draw from the above quotes? The "not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect" part doesn't affect the current case, since Vampiric Touch drains Hit Points, not levels, and specifically does grant Temporary Hit Points.

 

[Li Shenron]

So, what conclusions do you you draw from the above quotes?

Not much

 

[Endur]

After re-reading the rule, I came to the conclusion that Death Knell overlaps and does not stack. In particular, in the PHB on page 172, there is a section called "Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths", that discusses the over-lapping of Ray of Enfeeblement. Ray of Enfeeblement is a much better examples than the other two they used higher up on the page.

Since Ray of Enfeeblement is an exampel of an untyped bonus/penalty that does not stack, then Death Knell should not stack.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just to confuse things a little more, the 3E FAQ answer on temporary hit points:

How is the body feeder weapon quality supposed to work?
Do the temporary hit points from the weapon stack? The
same question applies to mind feeder weapons and to spell
effects, such as vampiric touch.
Temporary hit points from a body feeder weapon stack with
each other, but not with temporary hit points from any other
source. Likewise, temporary psionic points from a mind feeder
weapon stack, but not with temporary psionic points from any
other source.
In general, any effect that allows you to gain temporary hit
points over time allows you to stack those points, but only
those points. For example, if you use the vampiric touch spell,
the temporary hit points you gain from that particular casting of
the spell stack. They don’t stack with the temporary hit points
you get from an aid spell, nor would the effects of two
vampiric touch or aid spells stack. If you were to use two body
feeder weapons (or two mind feeder weapons), you could not
stack the temporary points from the two weapons.

-Hyp.