Dr Strange 2: In the Multiverse of Madness (Spoilers)

[Thomas Shey]

I will just note the Darkhold didn't come out of nowhere; that was set up in Wandavision.

 

[tomBitonti]

I will just note the Darkhold didn't come out of nowhere; that was set up in Wandavision.

It’s only in the Agents of Shield that the Darkhold is really shown. WandaVision has it, but we are only told that it is evil. We aren’t shown. And, while Agnes is evil, she seemed that way before getting the book, and didn’t seem to be worse for having it.

If folks knew that Wanda had the darkhold, they out to have convened at her location as if she had an un-exploded hydrogen bomb.

TomB

 

[Thomas Shey]

It’s only in the Agents of Shield that the Darkhold is really shown. WandaVision has it, but we are only told that it is evil. We aren’t shown. And, while Agnes is evil, she seemed that way before getting the book, and didn’t seem to be worse for having it.

If folks knew that Wanda had the darkhold, they out to have convened at her location as if she had an un-exploded hydrogen bomb.

TomB

The key phrase her is "if". To the best of our knowledge, the only people who knew about it being there were her and Agnes.

And as to being told and not shown--at a certain point, I'm really hard pressed to require filmmakers to unpack every statement they make on screen. If someone says that a particular bioweapon is singularly deadly, they don't have to show me that it is for me to take them at their word.

 

[BrokenTwin]

Watched it, enjoyed it, but I wasn't really happy with the direction they took Wanda. I mean, I get it, and it works, but now there's no way for the twins to exist natively in the 616 MCU reality, which means my fleeting hopes of actually seeing the galactic power couple that is Wiccan and Hulkling appear in the MCU is pretty much gone. And I guess all the plot threads that got established in Wandavision (nuVision, the twins, Agatha) are just getting dropped.

I liked America Chavez, though she was a little too macguffin-girl for my tastes. And as much as I fanboyed over the Illuminati cast, they could have stood to be cut from the script to tighten the focus on the core characters.

Visuals were a lot of fun. Strange's third eye looks ridiculous though.

 

[tomBitonti]

The key phrase her is "if". To the best of our knowledge, the only people who knew about it being there were her and Agnes.

And as to being told and not shown--at a certain point, I'm really hard pressed to require filmmakers to unpack every statement they make on screen. If someone says that a particular bioweapon is singularly deadly, they don't have to show me that it is for me to take them at their word.

Not every statement, sure. But key plot points should be shown. (I think this is good point to be made for designing adventures.)

There is a scene at the beginning of “The Rock” with Nicholas Cage where a deadly biotoxin is being stolen. There is an accident and some of the toxin is released. Some of the thieves are sealed in a bunker and left to die. We see the fast acting toxin kill them in seconds as they foam at the mouth and their skin blisters.

Further, there is another scene where the Cage character attempts to diffuse a bioweapon. His parter accidentally sets it off and they have to take extra-ordinary steps to save themselves.

The lethality of the stolen biotoxin is a key plot point. We are not just told. We are very clearly shown the lethality of the toxin. This really helps to propel the story.

TomB

 

[Thomas Shey]

Not every statement, sure. But key plot points should be shown. (I think this is good point to be made for designing adventures.)

I used the example I did for a reason. In a movie where a super-deadly bioweapon exists, its a key plot point.

You still don't need to show me. If you've got the time it may add some emotional heft to the movie, but I don't need you to kill a bunch of people to sell me on the weapon being deadly.

Similarly, if you sell a book of evil magic on being basically the Necronomicon, you don't have to present proof in advance. Its a premise thing, and you don't have to prove your premise.

(The only time this is a problem is when you tell me X and the story actually shows Y. Informed attributes in conflict with shown attributes are a problem, but ones that are informed and then shown later are fine, and I think the expectation to always have them demonstrated up front is not a particularly reasonable ask).

There is a scene at the beginning of “The Rock” with Nicholas Cage where a deadly biotoxin is being stolen. There is an accident and some of the toxin is released. Some of the thieves are sealed in a bunker and left to die. We see the fast acting toxin kill them in seconds as they foam at the mouth and their skin blisters.

Further, there is another scene where the Cage character attempts to diffuse a bioweapon. His parter accidentally sets it off and they have to take extra-ordinary steps to save themselves.

The lethality of the stolen biotoxin is a key plot point. We are not just told. We are very clearly shown the lethality of the toxin. This really helps to propel the story.

TomB

As I said, if you have the time the first is a virtue--but its not a necessity, and may not be the best use of screen time if you have other things going on.

(I'd argue the equivelent of your second case did take place in the movie--at least twice, both involving alternate Stephen Stranges.)

 

[Stalker0]

It’s only in the Agents of Shield that the Darkhold is really shown. WandaVision has it, but we are only told that it is evil. We aren’t shown. And, while Agnes is evil, she seemed that way before getting the book, and didn’t seem to be worse for having it.

If folks knew that Wanda had the darkhold, they out to have convened at her location as if she had an un-exploded hydrogen bomb.

This is a fair point. Agatha doesn't really seem "corrupted" by the book anymore than she was already, and she might have had the thing for years for all we know. On the other hand, I think the movie does a good job in its own scences highlighting how destructive and corrupting the book is....by its affects on other strange's in other multiverses. So I think the movie is consistent within itself, its just not necessarily consistent with Wandavision. On the other other hand, perhaps the fact taht Agatha was already pretty twisted means the book didn't have much it needed to do.

The note about the "unexploded hydrogen bomb"....I do feel like one major element that was completely missing from Wandavision and this movie is... the utter incompetance of Kamotajj. There was a major magical event on Earth, and not a peep from them. Hell when Thor and Loki come to earth looking for Odin, Dr Strange immediately picks up on them. But an entire town gets mindcontrolled by chaos power and they are like..."meh".

Now I can respect that we didn't want Dr Strange in Wandavision, and having some excuse why they couldn't get there "in time" I'm fine with, I can accept it. But they never followed up....never found out what happened, never tracked down Wanda to see if she was actually back to normal? I mean only SHIELD has shown that level of incompetance, and at least they were constantly being undermined from within by an evil splinter organization, what is Kamotajj's excuse?

I would love if that was an actual plot point, Wong being critical of himself because of things slipping through the cracks, maybe we find out that the Ancient One was so powerful and wise that she had held the organization practically by herself, and without her leadership the Wizards are actually in a massive upheaval right now. Or maybe it was all going to hell even during the Ancient One's reign...perhaps that little bit of darkness she had been feeding on was making her just a liiiiiitle complacent when it came to certain dark threats, giving some interesting fodder for Mordo's arguments. That could be really cool to learn about....as opposed to "sorry wanda, should have probably looked in on you in the year or so since you had a nervous breakdown and enslaved an entire town with more magic than one witch should be capable of doing....our bad".

 

[Staffan]

The note about the "unexploded hydrogen bomb"....I do feel like one major element that was completely missing from Wandavision and this movie is... the utter incompetance of Kamotajj. There was a major magical event on Earth, and not a peep from them. Hell when Thor and Loki come to earth looking for Odin, Dr Strange immediately picks up on them. But an entire town gets mindcontrolled by chaos power and they are like..."meh".

No-price explanation: since the effect was both limited by and bounded by the hex, it wasn't detectable outside of it to sorcerous methods. We do see that when the Vision tries to leave, he starts disintegrating because he just doesn't exist in the outside world.

 

[Stalker0]

No-price explanation: since the effect was both limited by and bounded by the hex, it wasn't detectable outside of it to sorcerous methods. We do see that when the Vision tries to leave, he starts disintegrating because he just doesn't exist in the outside world.

I love that explanation.... except Agatha found it using sorcerous methods

Now if she had found it because of the darkhold....ok now we have ourselves a reasonable explanation.

 

[Umbran]

The Crazy Woman trope is old, and tired, and sexist.

I find that the fact that we see her trauma every step of the way rather keeps it from being a trope. We've had several male characters have difficulties dealing with what they've been through in the MCU already. To not have a woman also represented would be a problem.