Dragon Roots Magazine DIDN'T sell the 4e Killed Gary shirts

[GMSkarka]

Meh. There are plenty of other tasteless and truly abominable things going on in this world to get too worked up about some yahoos using a dead celebrity to take a potshot at a game.

Maybe what you're not getting is that for many of us in that Exhibit Hall, Gary isn't a "dead celebrity." He was a friend, a co-worker, a colleague....

Would you react with "Meh" if some chuckleheads were mocking the death of one of your friends?


This seems to be the disconnect for many. Try a little empathy, folks.

 

[billd91]

Maybe what you're not getting is that for many of us in that Exhibit Hall, Gary isn't a "dead celebrity." He was a friend, a co-worker, a colleague....

Would you react with "Meh" if some chuckleheads were mocking the death of one of your friends?


This seems to be the disconnect for many. Try a little empathy, folks.

And for MOST people at the Con, Gygax is a not-personally-known celebrity (and not a universally loved one, at that). So try a little proportion, folks.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

This sums up my feelings here. I am more bothered by the witch hunt attitude that seems to be going on here than what was on the shirts. Some folks are legitimately expressing just their displeasure while others seeming want to take it to another level, either by censorship or even violence.

Let us also remember that Gary Gygax was just a man like everyone else. While he did help create D&D (and lets not forget that he was not alone in this) that does not make him some sort of infallible being that should be elevated upon death to the point that anything critical of him or that dishonors him needs to have those responsible hunted down and punished. While I respect what he did for our hobby I see no need to protect his memory to this level just because some people don't respect his memory as much as others.

Maybe what you're not getting is that for many of us in that Exhibit Hall, Gary isn't a "dead celebrity." He was a friend, a co-worker, a colleague....

Would you react with "Meh" if some chuckleheads were mocking the death of one of your friends?


This seems to be the disconnect for many. Try a little empathy, folks.

I would react with "meh" if I were one of his friends. First Gary was a celebrity which opens him up to a wider range of issues than if he were an unknown. These people didn't know Gary so I wouldn't expect the same level of respect that I would expect from his friends and family. While insensitive this was not a personal attack, nor to many of the people complaining was he a personal friend, co-worker, or family. Second his death was not being mocked, nor was he being directly disrespected.

As I stated above I personally wouldn't wear such a shirt I will stand up for those who chose to.

 

[Hussar]

Brown Jenkin - Would you also stand up for people's rights to not purchase merchandise sold by this company?

 

[DM-Rocco]

While insensitive this was not a personal attack, nor to many of the people complaining was he a personal friend, co-worker, or family.

I have to chime in here.

Dr. Martin Luther King or JFK or Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan were not personal friends, they were not family or even co-workers. Are you saying that because of this I had no right to feel greif when Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan passed away? Is it okay that people mock or make fun of JFK or Mr. Martin Luther King? My point isn't that it is America and that while here people have freedom of speech and CAN do what they did. My point isn't that people will eventually make light of certain personallities. My point is that you don't have to be a family memeber, a co-worker or a personal friend to feel empathy for a man who changed the lives of many.

I won't get started on my speech about how the world, and not just the gaming world, would be different without him. However, to say that because we didn't know him personally we therefore shouldn't be outraged, well, for lack of a better word, that just seems foolish.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

Brown Jenkin - Would you also stand up for people's rights to not purchase merchandise sold by this company?

Sure that is a fine way of showing displeasure. Its when that displeasure goes to the point of saying that someone shouldn't sell the product at all or that they should be physically attacked for doing so that I will object.

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I have to chime in here.

Dr. Martin Luther King or JFK or Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan were not personal friends, they were not family or even co-workers. Are you saying that because of this I had no right to feel greif when Pope John Paul II or Ronald Reagan passed away?

No, there is nothing wrong with feeling grief for the death of people you don't know personally. I would argue however that it is different when it is someone you know personally.

Is it okay that people mock or make fun of JFK or Mr. Martin Luther King?

Yes. I respect both men but that doesn't mean that I will stop others from expressing their feelings if those feelings are different than mine.

My point isn't that it is America and that while here people have freedom of speech and CAN do what they did. My point isn't that people will eventually make light of certain personallities. My point is that you don't have to be a family memeber, a co-worker or a personal friend to feel empathy for a man who changed the lives of many.

I don't disagree, but I still hold my position. You, myself, and others may greatly respect Gary for what he did that doesn't change my opinion that others may hold different opinions, or that they shouldn't be allowed to express those opinions.

I won't get started on my speech about how the world, and not just the gaming world, would be different without him. However, to say that because we didn't know him personally we therefore shouldn't be outraged, well, for lack of a better word, that just seems foolish.

I agree that he changed the world in many ways. The New York Times had a wonderful op-ed piece when he died that covered how far his reach was. However, I personally don't see the level of what was on the shirts as being high enough to cause this level of outrage myself. The shirts may have been tacky but I didn't see them as mocking or disrespectful to the man himself. And even if they were to some people, my point was mostly that the sense of outrage seemed to be directed in ways that seemed inappropriate.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Sure that is a fine way of showing displeasure. Its when that displeasure goes to the point of saying that someone shouldn't sell the product at all or that they should be physically attacked for doing so that I will object.

No, there is nothing wrong with feeling grief for the death of people you don't know personally. I would argue however that it is different when it is someone you know personally.



Yes. I respect both men but that doesn't mean that I will stop others from expressing their feelings if those feelings are different than mine.



I don't disagree, but I still hold my position. You, myself, and others may greatly respect Gary for what he did that doesn't change my opinion that others may hold different opinions, or that they shouldn't be allowed to express those opinions.



I agree that he changed the world in many ways. The New York Times had a wonderful op-ed piece when he died that covered how far his reach was. However, I personally don't see the level of what was on the shirts as being high enough to cause this level of outrage myself. The shirts may have been tacky but I didn't see them as mocking or disrespectful to the man himself. And even if they were to some people, my point was mostly that the sense of outrage seemed to be directed in ways that seemed inappropriate.

Well, okay, it just seemed as if you didn't want people to get upset about it. That is what sucks about e-mails and forums, it is hard to get a feeling of what is being said without a voice behind it.

Anyway, I think that your concern about people wanting to lynch and beat people is mostly bravado from people who want to express their outrage but I'm sure if they really saw those people face to face they wouldn't take a baseball bat to their heads.

 

[DM-Rocco]

Hey, I dig that multi quote option. That is really cool.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I am more bothered by the witch hunt attitude that seems to be going on here than what was on the shirts. Some folks are legitimately expressing just their displeasure while others seeming want to take it to another level, either by censorship or even violence.

You seem surprised. People went into an frenzy of emotions when they found out the gnome wasn't going to be in the Players Handbook. It's just internet venting. I don't think anyone really means harm to those who sold or wore those shirts. Otherwise there probably would have been reports of such directly from GenCon.