Drow - good for anything?

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

They're also in the Realms as a race, not a monster. Well, both perhaps.

Maybe, but the Realms didn't redesign them from scratch. They still have the same problems.

Wait, I think they suck, it just wasn't the main point of what I said.

Except due to their terrible HD and HP, they make terrible foes, too

Yeah they don't last long. Maybe WotC made them as an elf template and forgot to playtest them.

Drow don't make good clerics, which is kind of weird. No Wis bonus, unlikely to use full plate, low Con means no buffing-n-bashing goodness, one or two lost levels (NPC vs PC), etc... No wonder the drow clerics in FR novels cast wizard spells!

 

[SorvahrSpahr]

rogue/assassin drow ftw

 

[Victim]

Note that SR is a mixed blessing.

The terms "object" and "harmless" mean the same thing for spell resistance as they do for saving throws. A creature with spell resistance must voluntarily lower the resistance (a standard action) in order to be affected by a spell noted as harmless. In such a case, you do not need to make the caster level check described above.

Since it's a standard action to lower SR, a drow character will often have in combat heals and buffs bouncing off the SR in addition to hostile spells.

 

[Gort]

Note that SR is a mixed blessing. Since it's a standard action to lower SR, a drow character will often have in combat heals and buffs bouncing off the SR in addition to hostile spells.

Man, I'm house-ruling THAT if anyone ever acquires SR in my campaign. As if being a drow wasn't enough punishment, you get this as well?

 

[Seeten]

Drow are pretty terrible, they are balanced for real play at LA +1. They have a LOT of things that look good on paper, but its Mystic Theurgic in play, it just doesnt play NEARLY as well as it looks like it should. SR isnt so great, doesnt work against BBEG's who are almost always several levels higher than the group, and have spell pen, it prevents some heals, they get unbalanced ability scores, but those scores are best used for classes that their level adjustment kills, and top it off with -2 Con.

All in all, the package looks nice on first blush, but once you look under the hood, its a dog.

 

[Felix]

Actually, the last two are inaccurate. Because of the +2 LA, the saving throw bonuses won't be as high.

Right, so their saves are generally as high as a character of the same ECL. This in some degree makes up for the loss of the 2 HD that Aus_Snow was pointing out; I wanted to mark that the race did have advantages to make up for this deficiency.

 

[WarlockLord]

Also, about the Int and Cha bonuses:

Yeah, you get a DC bonus, but you're a spell level behind. Again, it's "Whoa, at 18th level, I get a +1 bonus to all DC's."

Because of your weakness at every other level, the rest of the party is epic.

As for SR... it's...nice... but not perfect. Everyone with the conjuration school (any spellcaster) can turn you into pudding. And with 2 less HD and a -2 to con, it's easy to do.

Also, per DMG, a +2 con bonus is equal to a -2 int and -2 cha. It's logical that the reverse is true.

Darkvision has never been worth LA, as you always end up with the torch-carrying party who are more powerful than you.

 

[Felix]

Also, about the Int and Cha bonuses:

Yeah, you get a DC bonus, but you're a spell level behind. Again, it's "Whoa, at 18th level, I get a +1 bonus to all DC's."

Again, it doesn't make you better than the other casters, but it does a job at making sure you arn't worse off. It does this by having a drow's spells harder to resist than another caster's when they're casting the same spell. If you consider that a spellcaster's highest level spells constitute a very small proportion of their total spellcasting ability, I'd say that this is not insignifigant.

And considering how hard it is for casters to increase their saving throws (+1 is a feat), I wouldn't sneeze at it like you do.

As for SR... it's...nice... but not perfect. Everyone with the conjuration school (any spellcaster) can turn you into pudding. And with 2 less HD and a -2 to con, it's easy to do.

Firstly, this line of argument doesn't make sense. Simply because a defense is not infallable does not mean it isn't a good defense. Having a 40% chance to dodge the vast majority of spells before you even have to make a save is strong.

Secondly, the caster not only has to have access to Conjuration spells, but has to have them Known or Prepared and has to realize you have Spell Resistance before they resort to the "SR: no" spells. (Unless they were going to cast Conjuration spells anyway, in which case it doesn't matter if you have SR or not: you'll be puddled either way.) Even if that only takes one or two rounds for enemy casters to figure that out, it's a round they're not spending doing something that will hurt you.

Also, per DMG, a +2 con bonus is equal to a -2 int and -2 cha. It's logical that the reverse is true.

If that is so, then what is a free +2 Dex worth? It is arguably the most powerful of the stats. Arguably.

Darkvision has never been worth LA, as you always end up with the torch-carrying party who are more powerful than you.

When the drow is in the position to take advantage of his 120' Darkvision, he becomes much more powerful. If the character chooses to adventure torch-bearers the he has chosen to reduce his effectiveness as much as a specialist wizard who chooses Abjuration and Conjuration as his barred schools.

What it does not mean is that 120' darkvision is not very useful. It is; just not when you're standing next to a bunch of rubes who can't see in the dark.

 

[Notmousse]

Drow make excellent panther chow. Do watch for the scimitars though.

 

[Darklone]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention he'll be playing a bard. That should more than balance him

Simply drop the LA.

Forget about the feat.

Let him rule the game