Drow - good for anything?

[Seeten]

I have toyed with starting a campaign where the PC's are ALL monstrous characters, living in an uncharted land on a continent, where "PC's" and Paladins and the like keeping showing up to "Kill the monsters" who live there, and have the PC's become the "champions" of the land, sort of thing.

 

[IanB]

But it seems that the option of playing a monstrous character is intended to be unappealing.

I think Savage Species actually more or less says that outright at some point.

 

[Seeten]

That is why I thinking that the unearthed arcana suggestion would fix in the long term of play the LA problem. Not short term.

My DM does have a method of character construction that does allow an LA +1 or +2 character to start at 1st level but the stats given are much lower. If we are playing a 28 or 32 point buy game, then they get elite array for LA+1, and standard array for LA+2. This does not allow you to optimize the way the point buy would. All in all, only one player too an LA+1. I considered taking a drow but chose otherwise.

This did allow full progression though, you traded LA for Stat points and flexibility.

Unearthed Arcana's LA Buyback just unbalances stuff in the other direction. Its the best we have, but it isnt "good".

What we need is racial levels where you get the special bonuses, with hit dice, in the racial level, and which can be skipped, or not, at your leisure. Arcana Evolved does this very well, the Dracha can gain wings, extra stat boosts, a breath weapon, but if you choose, you can take 20 levels of Wizard instead. Your choice.

 

[Darklone]

Also, I apologize to Darklone for the snark. =)

No problem.

I didn't want to point out that poison would be the great equaliser, I just made the experience with that specific dwarven fighter that he never managed to make a Fort Save DC 12 or higher

 

[Seeten]

My Paladin(a human) has a fortitude save of...+18 at level 8.

 

[Darklone]

Certainly. We had one with Fort 20 around that level (had some ftr levels). Yet, the poison is stronger at levels where the loss in HD hurts the drow more.

Still, the race is weak.

 

[Felix]

Actually, you're digging your own grave here.

...

I disagree: I'm digging the foundation to my manor home.

Here's the breakdown of why a +2 LA would be appropriate for the drow:

SR 11+ class level. +1 LA.

A lot of people don't seem to think that this is worth the LA; I disagree and there's really not much more to be said about it. "Value" is not an objective measure, it's subjective to the "buyer", and SR seems a reasonable purchase for +1 LA. It means that a full caster of equal ECL is going to have a 60% chance of forcing a saving throw for every spell that allows SR.

This ability will be more effective if casters don't know the difference between a successful save and ineffectiveness due to SR. I don't believe there is a clear ruling in the core books about this, although I may very well be wrong, and if I'm right, this will descend upon the DM to make a ruling.

This ability will be less effective if casters do know the difference between a successful save and ineffectiveness due to SR.​

This ability will be more effective against more lower-ECL foes.

This ability will be less effective against few higher-ECL foes.​

This ability will be more effective against multiclass casters and partial casters.

This ability will be less effective against dedicated casters, and casters with bonuses to Caster Level, Spell Penetration, and other similar abilities.​

This abiilty will be more effective against wands, assuming minimum caster level at wand creation, which all wands are priced at.

This ability will be as effective against staves as they are against the caster himself.​

This ability will be more effective if it is not widely and automatically known that drow possess SR.

This ability will be less effective if drow's possession of SR is taught in elemenary school, and other in-game reasons for having it widely known.​

This ability will be more effective if the character employs magical or mundane means to conceal his race, limiting the ability of those who are aware that drow possess SR to recognize that what they are facing is indeed, a drow.

This ability will be less effective if the drow in question does not make any efforts to conceal his race.​

This ability will be more effective if access to Conjuration spells is restricted, Conjuration specialists are few, or non-core Conjuration spells such as the Orb suite of spells are not allowed in-game.

This ability will be less effective if the reverse of any of those three things is true.​

This ability will be more effective if you run into casters more often, because it will come into play more often.

This ability will be less effective if you rarely run into casters, because the ability will be seldom used.​

As every single one of those is entirely campaign dependent, you can have SR worth from less than +1 LA to more. The prospective player of the drow should understand what the campaign will be like before he chooses this race.


Dex +2, Con -2, Int +2, Cha +2. +1 LA.

These ability bonuses are quite valuable. Yes, it hurts to have a -2 Con; elves are saddled with this as it is. A nice comparison is with the Aasimar, who gets +2 Wis and +2 Cha; if you manage the Dex anc Con so they cancel out, you're effectively getting Aasimar stat bonuses, a race which is +1 LA. So there is consistency here.

Of course, unless there are other benefits with the +2 Int and +2 Cha, I would not pay +1 LA for the privilidge of being smarter and better spoken. Fortunately, the drow's perquisites do not end here.

(The following are all the other Drow benefits not derived from higher stats, as they would be included in the "Value" of the Ability Stat bonus LA.)

Darkvision 120'
+2 racial Will save vs spells and SLAs and enchantment effects
Dancing Lights, Darkness, Faerie Fire: 1/day
Weapon Proficiencies: Hand Crossbow, Rapier, Shortsword.
Immunity to Sleep and magical sleep effects.
+2 racial bonus to Search, Listen, and Spot.
Automatic Search check if passes within 5' of a secret or concealed door.​

If your character build takes advantage of these abilities.
If your character functions well while acting at a distance from enemy melee combatants.
If the campaign operates such that SR is effective.

Then your Drow will be worth the +2 LA cost associated with it. As levels increase, the LA will be less and less of a burden, and the drow will become more effective for any given state of the 3 "Ifs" provided.

Naturally, if in your campaign, SR is not of any benefit to you (perhaps because every enemy caster you encounter is a higher level Conjurer) and you play a Melee character (including some class combinations) the drow will not be worth +2 LA.

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To answer the Original Poster's question, yes, the drow can be very good at a few things (much like other races). However, that effectiveness is highly dependent upon what you choose to specialize in, and the encounter characteristics of your game.

 

[Seeten]

Int and Cha are non-associated ability scores, unlike Wis and Cha. They are used for different classes, with the single exception of Rogues, and not all rogues are also faces.

SR is unquestionably worth +1 LA, its just not worth it equally for all classes. Many classes, liek Wizard, can cast many spells on themself like globe of invulnerability, minor globe, etc, dispel magic, counterspell, to make SR much less useful, Monks get SR free with class, Clerics dont really need it, etc.

While its worth the +1, it is poor for the iconic character classes of the drow. Cleric, for female drow, and Wizard, for male drow.

The stats are non associated, so while you get 3 +2's, they only all work together for one class.

The bonuses are unfocused, and this is why they are not good. It isnt because there arent enough of them, its that they all work at cross purposes, making the race poor to mediocre at most everything but Paladin/blackguard.

 

[Seeten]

To be more specific, the reasons you cite are why Drow are +2 LA. The fact that none of those bonuses worth together for the same character is why common sense tells me they are in fact much better placed at +1 LA.

 

[Felix]

The fact that none of those bonuses worth together for the same character is why common sense tells me they are in fact much better placed at +1 LA.

As written?