Druid overpowering us all

[Plane Sailing]

At 8th level, they effectively gain larger damage dice and a lot of strength. This is one of the biggest power leaps in the game.

Not to mention ungodly (undruidly?) grapple chances; only gets worse with animal growth or huge forms (or both) available.

(nb although it is not so easy to use, I'd argue that paladin pre-warhorse and paladin post-warhorse is perhaps an even bigger leap in combat capability. At the level they appear those warhorses are tough

 

[Pielorinho]

Great point re: grapple, Plane Sailing. It's not just killer against spellcasters; it's pretty dang deadly against fighters, barbarians, and rangers, too. In fact, against anyone that doesn't specialize in light weapons or unarmed weapon fighting, improved grapple is very powerful.

IMC, I've reduced the size benefits for grappling to +2/-2 instead of +4/-4; it makes grappling not always the obvious choice for large critters, while still givng them some advantage.

Daniel

 

[mikebr99]

If you are concerned about your Druids grappling all the time... start throwing some giants their way, who aren't easy targets for this tactic.

Seriously, my 12th level human druid does not outshine the Hound archon Paladin, and the Spiked chain Weaponmaster in combat. And the Invoker Warwizard outshines us all... hands down!


YMMV


Mike

 

[ForceUser]

My barbarian 1/druid 7 is about to become a beast. He has the Natural Spell feat, and once he makes 8th level druid, I see no reason to not stay in dire ape form 100% of the time while adventuring, especially given his ring of tongues. Rage, reach, rend and spellcasting - tell me that's not overpowered! Can't wait!

 

[Otterscrubber]

Great point re: grapple, Plane Sailing. It's not just killer against spellcasters; it's pretty dang deadly against fighters, barbarians, and rangers, too. In fact, against anyone that doesn't specialize in light weapons or unarmed weapon fighting, improved grapple is very powerful.

IMC, I've reduced the size benefits for grappling to +2/-2 instead of +4/-4; it makes grappling not always the obvious choice for large critters, while still givng them some advantage.

Daniel

You know, I havent found grappling to be the obvious choice for large monsters in my campaign. If there is a big monster fighting my group usually it will have to focus on one character for a few rounds, or else take the -20 penalty to continue to threaten and attack other characters. This makes most monsters not want to grapple unless it is a one on one situation. If they do focus on one character to grapple with, it usually takes them a few rounds to take them out, in which case the rest of the PC's have several free rounds to work over the monster in question.

It does get ugly if there is a giant for every PC though and they have improved grapple. Stay away from those Giant Monastaries.......

 

[Asmo]

A question about the bad AC for a Wildshaped Druid:
is it just me that uses a Wild armor (from Masters of the Wild), preferably a fullplate ironwood and have a cleric casting Magic Westment and other AC boosting spells that gives a really good AC? With Haste and Expertise my AC is often over 40 while Wildshaped. This is a 3.0 game.
On the question if armors and stuff rezizes when a Druid Wildshapes I don´t know what the rules says, quite frankly. My dm is a firm beliver that magic items will always fit the wearer sounds fine to me (thus allowing me to use a wild fullplate as a dire bear). But I would be interested in the general opinion.

Asmo

 

[ForceUser]

A question about the bad AC for a Wildshaped Druid:
is it just me that uses a Wild armor (from Masters of the Wild), preferably a fullplate ironwood and have a cleric casting Magic Westment and other AC boosting spells that gives a really good AC? With Haste and Expertise my AC is often over 40 while Wildshaped. This is a 3.0 game.
On the question if armors and stuff rezizes when a Druid Wildshapes I don´t know what the rules says, quite frankly. My dm is a firm beliver that magic items will always fit the wearer sounds fine to me (thus allowing me to use a wild fullplate as a dire bear). But I would be interested in the general opinion.

Asmo

In 3.5, if you shapechange into a non-humanoid form your humanoid-shaped armor is magically subsumed into your new form - you can't utilize any magic items on your person that your new form cannot wear in the same manner you do. For instance, a wildshaped druid in bear form would continue to wear and gain benefit from an amulet of natural armor, but not from a ring of protection; bears have necks but no fingers. You can get around this restriction with a wilding clasp for each item you want to gain benefit from while polymorphed. If a fighter is polymorphed into a giant, his armor changes size with him but his weapon does not.

All of the above is per Andy Collins from his own messageboards a while back.

[edit: clarity]

 

[mikebr99]

From Wizards... Animal slots for magic items:

Animal Item Slots

​

Although it's easy to imagine an animal benefiting from magic equipment beyond a simple saddle and a suit of barding, fitting a mount's physiology to the list of item slots available to characters is not an easy task. Try the following variant list of item slots for quadruped animals (and other monsters when appropriate).
​

• One skull cap or helm
• One pair of lenses or goggles
• One collar
• One saddle blanket or vest
• One saddle or jacket
• One belt or strap worn in front of or over the haunches
• One pectoral or harness worn over the chest or shoulders
• One pair foreleg bracers
• One pair of foreleg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts
• Two rings -- creatures with toes wear rings on the toes and creatures with hooves wear "rings" just above fore hooves
• One pair of hind leg shoes or mitts -- hoofed creatures wear shoes and creatures with paws wear mitts

​

​

​

 

[Pielorinho]

Forceuser, note he's talking about Wild armor; that's armor that melds with your current form. Asmo, you DID remember to take heavy armor proficiency, right?

As for grappling, it's best used when:

-There's not many more fighter types than there are large creatures; or
-The large creature is immune to crits -- such as elementals.

In these cases, grappling becomes extremely nasty, and a creature is foolish NOT to try to grapple anyone it can.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

And Mikebr99, thanks for that link; however, if you're worried about druids being overpowering, I'd advise against that variant. One of the things that keeps druids in check is their limited use of equipment when wildshaped. If you take away that limitation, they become even more powerful.

And that's not even touching the issue of how incredibly goofy it is to have a horse wearing rings on its hooves. Not exactly the standard fantasy aesthetic for a nature-caster.

Daniel