Druid overpowering us all

[Pielorinho]

Good point, EPRock, and another example of why I hate the polymorph rules.

Rather than have a spell that turns people into mighty battle threshing machines (that's what class levels in fighter and barbarian are for), I'd much rather have a spell that doesn't grant much in terms of fighting prowess, but that grants a huge amount of flexibility. Instead, and especially with new wildshape, we've got exactly the opposite.

Daniel

 

[ForceUser]

I wonder if druids would be better balanced if Natural Spell were removed from the game?

 

[jgsugden]

I wonder if druids would be better balanced if Natural Spell were removed from the game?

The result of removing natural spell - lots of druids taking still and silent spell. Removing the spellcasting from the druid doesn't get to the heart of the problem. It just takes away part of what makes the druid distinctive. Besides, the druid would just tend towards spells that were cast outside of combat if that happens. Summon a bunch of beasts, wildshape and then charge into combat ...

 

[Pielorinho]

Forceuser, that would be an acceptable change. Personally, I think it'd be cool to give it to druids as a class power. Maybe at level 12, instead of the goofy wildshape-into-a-plant idea?

It's certainly such a good feat that a druid almost has to take it.

You could also make it less worthwhile by requiring silent spell (and/or still spell) as a prerequisite.

Daniel

 

[Ricochet]

Wow... So many responses, I'll try to get around it all

He is usually buffed only with Barkskin when wildshaped, and is a large brown bear. He doesn't have "Natural Spell" feat (but takes it next level).

He also has a dire wolf act on his initiative (animal companion), but that one isn't so nasty as the druid himself.

We play with "same hit points as always" when wildshaped, so he doesn't get any hit point advantages, but always uses his own. He does have one advantage though, when he is knocked uncontious, he polymorphs --> regains hit points --> stabilises / gets back up.

After reading Pielorinho's notes I kind of realize he isn't all that overbalanced, but compared to eveytone else (including the fighter), he is our "Alpha-male" in melee.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

In a recent battle, the druid wild-shaped into a bear, and the wizard cast "Haste" on the party. In the following round, the druid hit three claw attacks, two of these critical hits, and missed with his bite. Damage = 70 (!)

The druid rolled the dice four times and two of them came up 20. He got lucky. So what.

I have seen optimized 8th level core only 3.0 grunts average 50-60 damage. A superbuffed barbarian/fighter once did 129 points on a lucky round.

70 damage is not astounding at all for an 8th level character with a full attack. A completely straightforward axe-wielding barbarian could easily go 60 damage on a single lucky crit.

 

[Pielorinho]

Paragon, I think I see a problem. Returning from wildshape to natural shape doesn't count as an active use of the ability, and you therefore don't regain hit points by doing that. Furthermore, I'm unaware of a rule that says you'd return to your normal shape when unconscious.

May want to double-check that, or get your DM to double-check it.

Daniel

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I notice that the reincarnation spell explicitly says that the hit points remain unchanged no matter what the new forms CON is.

Close, but not quite. It says the HPs are unchanged.

Personally, I find the idea that an elf reincarnated into a dwarf gains no benefit to his HPs from Con rather too lame to stomach. So I find this strong evidence that HPs do change with wildshaping.

I can see why you might think otherwise, though.

 

[Ricochet]

All the "that damage is not much, we can make better combos/feats etc." is not really interesting to me. Also bear in mind that we use 28 point-buy, so uber-stats are not the order of the day.

We play core rules, no splatbooks, no prestige classes and are not used to these numbers being tossed around in combat outside of our high-level game (15th).

edit: we'll check up on the wildshape rules tomorrow regarding hit points and changes, thanks for the tip!

As another note, the druids player acknowledges that he is quite powerful, and is also interested in seeing if it is played the right way. The rest of the party isn't trying to force him into being weaker. Just thought you would like to know ;-)

Again, thanks for all the replys!

 

[Gizzard]

He doesn't have "Natural Spell" feat (but takes it next level).

Some people have mentioned that the Druid is not a very good ranged attacker when Wildshaped, but I am not sure that's exactly true. Our 8th lvl Druid tended to Wildshape into an Eagle (to obey the Medium size requirement) and then back the party up with a Call Lightning via Natural Spell. I know people were thinking of bows & arrows, but my point is that there are plenty of things to be besides a Bear. The Bear has no range, but that just forces the Druid to be an Eagle if that's the sort of combat that is developing.

BTW, Natural Spell is so incredibly good that I assume that all Druids should have it by 8th level. If you think your Druid is dominant now, wait until he starts to challenge the Wizard in power through Natural Spell. ;-)