Eberron- And why I cannot jump onboard? A different take

[Aeolius]

I too fall in the "No interest in Eberron but gimme all the Greyhawk I can eat" camp.

 

[Silver Moon]

I'm not surprised that WotC decided to go for a world with a campaign setting with a unique style and tone to it. They need something new for Edition 3.5, to be what Greyhawk was to 1st Edition, Forgotten Realms to 2nd Edition and Scarred Lands to Edition 3.0.

Personnally, I liked the four-page preview in Dragon #315. I thought that it looked rather interesting and unique. I don't mind them adding in "action points" to give games in this setting a cinematic and over-the-top sense of drama to it.

One of the main problems I see with this setting is that many novice DM's will have some difficulty verbally translating the feel and tone into words, but some well written boxed text will help with this. I expect WotC will also suppliment this game setting with several on-line and printable visual aids, as it looks to be ideal for computer generated art. I've heard alot of references to far to Raiders of the Lost Ark, but most drawings I have seen thus far reminded me more of the Gotham City of Tim Burton's two Batman films. I can see why they haven't made that analogy as I don't think that "dark" tones is what they are shooting for.

 

[Desdichado]

See, I fail to see what's generic about the setting -- it looks unlike anything produced by TSR, Wizards of the Coast, or anyone else that's made any product remotely like D&D before. This is probably the only product from WotC that I'm for sure going to buy this year.

I'm also for sure going to buy the two Iron Kingdoms setting books -- assuming they actually do come out this year...

 

[Tellerve]

I'm fairly certain I'm going to buy it, as it reminds me almost completely of my old DM's campaign. Which is one of the reasons he's going to get it, to see how he did certain aspects that are similar.

All in all, I like the setting, and if it doesn't fit with everyone who cares. Oh right, some people just like to vent. *shrugs*

Tellerve

 

[Dragonblade]

I am totally going to buy this setting. I was sort of interested from the beginning but the more I read Keith's posts on the WotC boards the more interested I become.

Some of the criticisms levelled seem to be totally ridiculous to me. First there is the 'lack of originality' criticism. Well show me a setting that is original. Dark Sun, Scarred Lands? Sounds like Road Warrior with elves. FR, GH? Please. Yet another completely implausible pseudo-medieval setting. Like there isn't enough of those.

Personally, I hate campaigns with D&D level magic but for some reason no one has ever thought of using magic in everyday life. Someone had a great quote on the WotC boards, 'You mean for 1000 years we have been summoning lightning but it never occured to anyone to use it for something other than blasting your enemies?'

Sorry, yet another setting where author's fiat keeps an illogical and ridiculous medieval feel despite magic existing does not interest me. Finally a setting that explores the ramifications of magic in society.

Thank you Keith and thank you WotC, I'm totally stoked for this setting!

 

[Orius]

My question is, why another setting? Why not work on Greyhawk or FR, the two greatest worlds next to Neo-Orion (my campaign world)?

Well, with Greyhawk, you got all those fans who've been working on a world on their own for 20 years who will just bitch about how anything new has "trashed" the setting. They talk how great it is that TSR didn't overdevelop it, and then gripe in the next breath about how there's not enough Greyhawk material. There's no pleasing them.

As for Realms, how much more of that can they do? Are there any acres on the face of Faerun that has yet to be mapped, descibed, and given a lengthy history?

I have little interest in Eberron as a setting. I'll develop my own world instead. The only plus about it is the high magic aspect. If they do a world that actually takes into account how common magic should be without making it cheesy, instead of saying how rare and wonderful magic should be while loading modules with all kinds of new magical toys for PCs, then I don't mind.

 

[Hellcow]

Feh. Sounds like they're just taking the path of least resistance, providing magical analogues to technological devices, i.e. continual flame streetlights and lightning rail subways. Basically like playing cyberpunk with magic. Spellpunk.

Nope (not that there's any reason you should know that from what you've seen). The whole idea with the use of arcane magic in Eberron is to take existing spells, magic items, and things like golems, and to consider how those might be incorporated into society over the course of centuries. Yes,there are continual flame streetlights -- it's a very useful low level spell with a permanent duation. But there aren't magical toilets, magical computers, or magical phones. Economics are still taken into consideration. Yes, you could make a magical telephone network using sending, but you're dealing with a high-level spell and a magic item that costs tens of thousands of GP and a lot of XP. And as noted in the previous message, most NPCs use NPC classes. Most magical work is done by adepts or the new magewright class; even a low-level wizard is remarkable due to the range of spells she can cast and her early access to the upper level spells (in comparison to NPCs).

Looking back to the question of high magic to low magic, low-powered arcane spells (or psionics, depending on culture) are more common in advanced and prosperous societies than in many settings. But high-level magic is considerably rarer than it is in, say, Forgotten Realms. As mentioned in the current WotC site article, the highest level NPC cleric in the world is 16th level and can't even cast true resurrection.

As for the "is there a logic to the different areas of the world, or are they just lumped together like Disneyworld" - obviously there's not enough info available at the moment to make that clear. At the moment, I'd be surprised if anyone can tell me what those areas of the world actually are. Yes, there's a place with halflings and dinosaurs, but so far all that's known is that the halflings ride dinosaurs and build cliff dwellings. There's considerably more yet to be revealed, and as it is the world should begin to seem more like a tapestry instead of a quilt made up of disparate patches.

As for Brotherhood of the Wolf, it's certainly not my intent to say that BotW is what Eberron strives to be; I'm the first to admit that there are some very awkward things about the movie. But it is a recent example of a movie with pulp action that is not set in the 1930's era, and I was trying to steer people away from the idea that the world physically resembles Indiana Jones or The Mummy as opposed to just having the same adventurous tone. And while having pulp action, BotW also deals with a strange cult, a religious conspiracy, and court intrigue. Would I run BotW as an Eberron adventure? Nope. But there are certainly elements of the movie that can be described as "swashbuckling action and dark fantasy", which is what Eberron is about.

One thing I've said on other boards: the information provided so far does not in any way provide a complete picture of the world. There are some very critical elements that WotC is keeping in reserve, I assume so that each update is more interesting than the one before. It's not going to be a world for everyone, there's no question about that, and if you hate absolutely everything you've seen, it probaly won't be for you. But if you're still lukewarm or on the fence, keep an eye on things to come -- there are more surprises in store.

-Keith Baker

 

[PJ Mason]

See, I fail to see what's generic about the setting -- it looks unlike anything produced by TSR, Wizards of the Coast, or anyone else that's made any product remotely like D&D before. This is probably the only product from WotC that I'm for sure going to buy this year.

I'm interested in how its really different. Dark Sun changed the races, classes, and magic to some degree. I just wonder how different E will be. Since WOTC was looking for a game with some different spice but still usuable with all of their books, it may be, by default, something that is just too "generic". Generic being elves, dwarves, vancian wizards, etc. I have got more than enough of that already and i couldn't use it all as it is now.

I'm also for sure going to buy the two Iron Kingdoms setting books -- assuming they actually do come out this year...

the Iron Kingdoms is just an urban legend. It does not exist. Resistance is futile.

 

[Son_of_Thunder]

I'm onboard that majik train right now!

Nope (not that there's any reason you should know that from what you've seen). The whole idea with the use of arcane magic in Eberron is to take existing spells, magic items, and things like golems, and to consider how those might be incorporated into society over the course of centuries. Yes,there are continual flame streetlights -- it's a very useful low level spell with a permanent duation. But there aren't magical toilets, magical computers, or magical phones. Economics are still taken into consideration. Yes, you could make a magical telephone network using sending, but you're dealing with a high-level spell and a magic item that costs tens of thousands of GP and a lot of XP. And as noted in the previous message, most NPCs use NPC classes. Most magical work is done by adepts or the new magewright class; even a low-level wizard is remarkable due to the range of spells she can cast and her early access to the upper level spells (in comparison to NPCs).

Looking back to the question of high magic to low magic, low-powered arcane spells (or psionics, depending on culture) are more common in advanced and prosperous societies than in many settings. But high-level magic is considerably rarer than it is in, say, Forgotten Realms. As mentioned in the current WotC site article, the highest level NPC cleric in the world is 16th level and can't even cast true resurrection.

One thing I've said on other boards: the information provided so far does not in any way provide a complete picture of the world. There are some very critical elements that WotC is keeping in reserve, I assume so that each update is more interesting than the one before. It's not going to be a world for everyone, there's no question about that, and if you hate absolutely everything you've seen, it probaly won't be for you. But if you're still lukewarm or on the fence, keep an eye on things to come -- there are more surprises in store.

-Keith Baker

I'm firmly in the going to get camp. I have a healthy level of excitment just from the few previews we've had of this setting. The Exorcist of the Silver Flame, the orc druids, the Dragon Rage feat, the Eldeen starmap. These things just ooze creativity.

This setting even harkens back to OD&D in that you didn't need to follow a god to be a cleric.

If, from what you've seen from the limited previews given, you've already decided you don't like the setting, ok. When I said I didn't like the Book of Vile Darkness right after the press announcment was released, I was shouted at 'give it a chance, you haven't even seen the book yet'. Heck I was even chastised my Monte Cook himself. Oh well, can't win em all.

Son of Thunder

 

[Emiricol]

Well, chastisement from Monte isn't the be all and end all of enlightened judgement Anywho - most of the posts I've seen, with a couple exceptions, are in the "it excites me" or "it doesn't excite me yet" categories, not "this setting will suck." Those posts have been a tiny minority.