Paul Farquhar
Legend
If it has a stat block and you can punch it it isn't a god. Nuff said.
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D&D 5E Eberron versus Multiverse
- Thread starter Yaarel
- Start date
Forgotten Realms disagrees, but Forgotten Realms is wrong.
Actually, Norse mythology features gods who can be punched, as does Greek mythology.
Parmandur
Book-Friend
Why does God need a Starship...?
Yaarel
He-Mage
Ugghh.
According to the official Eberron setting, the three primordial dragons − Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber − factually exist.
These three cosmic "wyrms" created a separate material plane deep inside the Ethereal Plane, where the planet Eberron now resides. Everything is created by fiat. There is no evolution. Officially.
According to the 5e Eberron setting, the elves of Eberron (!) officially originate from the polytheistic god Corellon from the Forgotten Realms. The polytheistic god Corellon factually exists in the Eberron setting.
The Eberron Drow officially originate from Forgotten Realms Lolth. And so on for Orcs etcetera. All of these races are from the polytheistic gods of the Forgotten Realms setting, officially, according to the Eberron setting.
The three dragons "recreated" duplicate versions of these races that the Forgotten Realms gods originated, so as to populate Eberron. There is no evolution. Eberron elves are artificial clones of Forgotten Realms elves, literally.
The polytheistic gods of Forgotten Realms factually exist in the Eberron setting. The races in Eberron derive from these factually-existing polytheistic gods.
Officially.
5e destroyed the Eberron setting.
Eberron Rising, Page 232.
"
EBERRON AND THE MULTIVERSE
It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifcally designed to prevent such travel, to keep the world hidden away from the meddling of gods, celestials, and fiends from beyond.
The three progenitor wyrms worked together to form Eberron and its planes as a new cosmic system in the depths of the Ethereal Plane. They recreated the elves, orcs, dragons, and other races found throughout the multiverse and placed them in their new world, but allowed them to develop beyond the reach of Gruumsh, Corellon, Lolth, and other influences for good and ill.
"
According to the official Eberron setting, the three primordial dragons − Eberron, Siberys, and Khyber − factually exist.
These three cosmic "wyrms" created a separate material plane deep inside the Ethereal Plane, where the planet Eberron now resides. Everything is created by fiat. There is no evolution. Officially.
According to the 5e Eberron setting, the elves of Eberron (!) officially originate from the polytheistic god Corellon from the Forgotten Realms. The polytheistic god Corellon factually exists in the Eberron setting.
The Eberron Drow officially originate from Forgotten Realms Lolth. And so on for Orcs etcetera. All of these races are from the polytheistic gods of the Forgotten Realms setting, officially, according to the Eberron setting.
The three dragons "recreated" duplicate versions of these races that the Forgotten Realms gods originated, so as to populate Eberron. There is no evolution. Eberron elves are artificial clones of Forgotten Realms elves, literally.
The polytheistic gods of Forgotten Realms factually exist in the Eberron setting. The races in Eberron derive from these factually-existing polytheistic gods.
Officially.
5e destroyed the Eberron setting.
Eberron Rising, Page 232.
"
EBERRON AND THE MULTIVERSE
It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifcally designed to prevent such travel, to keep the world hidden away from the meddling of gods, celestials, and fiends from beyond.
The three progenitor wyrms worked together to form Eberron and its planes as a new cosmic system in the depths of the Ethereal Plane. They recreated the elves, orcs, dragons, and other races found throughout the multiverse and placed them in their new world, but allowed them to develop beyond the reach of Gruumsh, Corellon, Lolth, and other influences for good and ill.
"
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4e had that nonsense done to accomidate the asmodeous/"totally not the nine hells baator nonsense as is", 5e drops that beside midichlorians. I just skimmed over the planar sectionin Rising & there is no mention of gods in planes that I noticed.
Going back to your OP, the answer is complicated & involves some history of d&d. "Officially" rising says this:
EBERRON AND THE MULTIVERSE
It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifically designed to prevent such travel, to keep the world hidden away from the meddling of gods, celestials, and fiends from beyond.
The three progenitor wyrms worked together to form Eberron and its planes as a new cosmic system in the depths of the Ethereal Plane. They recreated the elves, ores, dragons, and other races found throughout the multiverse and placed them in their new world, but allowed them to develop beyond the reach of Gruumsh, Corellon, Lolth, and other influences for good and ill.
In your campaign, you might decide that the barrier formed by the Ring of Siberys is intact, and contact between Eberron and the worlds and planes beyond its cosmology is impossible. This is the default assumption of this book. On the other hand, you might want to incorporate elements from other realms. Perhaps you want to use a published adventure that involves Tiamat or the forces of the Abyss meddling in the affairs of the world. In such a case, it could be that the protection offered by the Ring of Siberys has begun to fail. You might link the weakening of Siberys to the Mourning-perhaps whatever magical catastrophe caused the Mourning also disrupted the Ring of Siberys, or perhaps a disruption of the Ring of Siberys actually caused the Mourning!
If contact between Eberron and the wider multiverse is recent and limited, consider the implications for everyone involved. In the Great Wheel, Asmodeus is an ancient threat, with well-established cults, lines of tiefings, and a long history of meddling that sages might uncover in dusty old tomes hidden in remote libraries. But if Asmodeus has only just discovered Eberron and begun to influence it for the first time, there is no lore about him to be discovered on Eberron. He has no power base and needs to recruit new followers. Unusual alliances might form against him, as celestials and fiends join forces to expel this hostile outsider.
It is theoretically possible to travel between Eberron and other worlds in the multiverse by means of the Deep Ethereal or various spells designed for planar travel, but the cosmology of Eberron is specifically designed to prevent such travel, to keep the world hidden away from the meddling of gods, celestials, and fiends from beyond.
The three progenitor wyrms worked together to form Eberron and its planes as a new cosmic system in the depths of the Ethereal Plane. They recreated the elves, ores, dragons, and other races found throughout the multiverse and placed them in their new world, but allowed them to develop beyond the reach of Gruumsh, Corellon, Lolth, and other influences for good and ill.
In your campaign, you might decide that the barrier formed by the Ring of Siberys is intact, and contact between Eberron and the worlds and planes beyond its cosmology is impossible. This is the default assumption of this book. On the other hand, you might want to incorporate elements from other realms. Perhaps you want to use a published adventure that involves Tiamat or the forces of the Abyss meddling in the affairs of the world. In such a case, it could be that the protection offered by the Ring of Siberys has begun to fail. You might link the weakening of Siberys to the Mourning-perhaps whatever magical catastrophe caused the Mourning also disrupted the Ring of Siberys, or perhaps a disruption of the Ring of Siberys actually caused the Mourning!
If contact between Eberron and the wider multiverse is recent and limited, consider the implications for everyone involved. In the Great Wheel, Asmodeus is an ancient threat, with well-established cults, lines of tiefings, and a long history of meddling that sages might uncover in dusty old tomes hidden in remote libraries. But if Asmodeus has only just discovered Eberron and begun to influence it for the first time, there is no lore about him to be discovered on Eberron. He has no power base and needs to recruit new followers. Unusual alliances might form against him, as celestials and fiends join forces to expel this hostile outsider.
7. D&D with a Twist. Every race, monster, spell, and magic item in the Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monster Manual has a place somewhere in Eberron, but it might not be the place you expect. Eberron has a unique spot in the D&D multiverse, and many familiar elements of the game play different roles in the world. In particular, mortal creatures are products of culture and circumstances, rather than the direct influence of the gods. As a result, you can't assume that a gold dragon is good or a beholder is evil; only in the case of celestials, fiends, and certain other creatures whose identity and worldview are shaped by magic (such as the curse of lycanthropy) is alignment a given.
With that said. This is pretty much what it said originally back in 3.5 but it was made a little more clear that there is no friendly port for another 4e style asmodeous metaplot being dumped from another setting as is into eberron sourcebooks. That's where things get into the history of d&d, back then the great wheel & planescape were still having books published & some of those books were still on store shelves is when (or slightly before) eberron was getting developed. Those planescape books were far more respecting of the lore present in other settings & settings didn't dare say things like $individual did/controls/created Y in the multiverse & expect to have that adaptation published as is with supporting lore in a splat/source book for some other conflicting setting. 4e proved that implied things like "deep in the astral" & such were not quite good enough to prevent that & it became obvious that there is a minority of people who just can not accept the lore of a given setting within that setting takes precedence over the lore of some other conflicting setting that was created first or says "all x..." who are willing to deliberately or accidentally cause problems to push that lore in places it does not belong. With that segment made clear, you have more explicit things in some of the 5e content like wgte & rising talking about the ring of Siberyis being a shield that has & is walling off eberron from "The muliverse".
The word "Toril" is not present in Rising & the references to forgotten realms in rising are vanishingly small
ARTIFICERS IN OTHER WORLDS
Eberron is the world most associated with artificers, yet the class can be found throughout the D&D multiverse. In the Forgotten Realms, for example, the island of Lantan is home to many artificers, and in the world of Dragonlance, tinker gnomes are often members of this class. The strange technologies in the Barrier Peaks of the World of Greyhawk have inspired some folk to wal k the path of the artificer, and in Mystara, various nations employ artificers to keep airships and other wondrous devices operational. In the City of Sigil, artificers share discoveries from throughout the cosmos, and one in particular-the gnome inventor Vi-has run a multiverse-spanning business from there since leaving the world of her birth, Eberron. In the world-city Ravnica, the lzzet League trains numerous artificers, the destructiveness of whom is unparalleled in other worlds-except, perhaps, by the tinker gnomes of Krynn.
Eberron is the world most associated with artificers, yet the class can be found throughout the D&D multiverse. In the Forgotten Realms, for example, the island of Lantan is home to many artificers, and in the world of Dragonlance, tinker gnomes are often members of this class. The strange technologies in the Barrier Peaks of the World of Greyhawk have inspired some folk to wal k the path of the artificer, and in Mystara, various nations employ artificers to keep airships and other wondrous devices operational. In the City of Sigil, artificers share discoveries from throughout the cosmos, and one in particular-the gnome inventor Vi-has run a multiverse-spanning business from there since leaving the world of her birth, Eberron. In the world-city Ravnica, the lzzet League trains numerous artificers, the destructiveness of whom is unparalleled in other worlds-except, perhaps, by the tinker gnomes of Krynn.
I'm so far from having a clue what the heck you are referencing here that I'm gonna need to ask for a source, section, or pagenumber that caused you to get this impression
@Doc_Klueless correct, the people of eberron as well as even the demons/celestials do not know with any certainty that the gods exist or ever existed. The demon overlords existed & are bound is a known fact. The fact that dragons fought them is very likely accepted (ancient & possibly very esoteric) history as is the fact that the Couatl sacrificed themselves to bind the overlords.
@Yaarel I think you might be getting caught up on some references to things like stories of other gods & such that may be present. That has always been the case with the Nine and Six (sovereign host & dark six) being very embrace & extend with how they spread their faith to other cultures like the Dar, lizardmen, gnomes, dwarves, etc who each had/have their own distinct cultures. Think of it like a Jewish Rabbi, an Islamic Cleric, A Catholic Priest, & a Mormon Priest(?) all sitting down in a coffee shop telling stories about their respective faiths & hashing out some places where they overlap in interesting ways that are likely to be meaningful to their perspective followers & which are likely to be offensive then telling those stories(or not) as makes the most sense to extend culture& help the culture being absorbed acclimate to the more advanced one more easily.
Why are you fixated on the Forgotten Realms? Those all existed in Greyhawk before the Forgotten Realms. So really... GREYHAWK is swallowing Eberron! Ruuun, Forest! Ruuuun!!
Yaarel
He-Mage
Because the 5e designers are fixated on the polytheism of the Forgotten Realms and infect every aspect of D&D with it.
Even Eberron.
Even Eberron could not survive the Forgotten Realms fixation of the 5e designers.
I too dislike how the Forgotten Realms is inserted into everything, such as the lore about all Elves coming from Corellon that was featured in MToF, but is it not a bit unreasonable to blame this on the "polytheism of the designers"?
It all seems a tad paranoid. No?
Sword of Spirit
Legend
Just remember that the D&D Multiverse is not a Forgotten Realms innovation. Forgotten Realms is actually a latecomer to it. If anything it is the Greyhawk multiverse; but in reality pretty much every 2e setting existed within it. The only reason Eberron didn’t was because it came out in 3e.
bedir than
Full Moon Storyteller
The word "recreated" does not mean "originated from."
To claim that Rising's claim is that elves of Eberron are from Corellon ignores all of the language being used. It is disingenuous and harmful to the discourse.
To claim that Rising's claim is that elves of Eberron are from Corellon ignores all of the language being used. It is disingenuous and harmful to the discourse.
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